capitalism is doomed - HibeesBounce.com

**egb_hibs** · 09-12-07, 20:08

surely. the more one clears out all the obscuring and irrelevant chaff chucked up by the guardianistas, chom-issars of the world, the more it's increasingly obvious that it's listing badly.

simultaneously redistributing wealth and power out of it's home territories at an unprecedented rate, while cultivating a narcissitic, rapacious population within them, is not a long-game formula.

the interesting thing will be what happens next.

i think the chinese model looks like the next stage in the game myself, except their typically socialist meddlings with national fertility look to contain the seeds of their demise already.

it's a hard one to call, but some form of authoritarian nationalism or imperialism is probably the way to go.

**pennywellhibby** · 09-12-07, 20:15

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Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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surely. the more one clears out all the obscuring and irrelevant chaff chucked up by the guardianistas, chom-issars of the world, the more it's increasingly obvious that it's listing badly.

simultaneously redistributing wealth and power out of it's home territories at an unprecedented rate, while cultivating a narcissitic, rapacious population within them, is not a long-game formula.

the interesting thing will be what happens next.

i think the chinese model looks like the next stage in the game myself, except their typically socialist meddlings with national fertility look to contain the seeds of their demise already.

it's a hard one to call, but some form of authoritarian nationalism or imperialism is probably the way to go.

welcome back mate missed you piffle
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**O'Driscoll** · 09-12-07, 20:24

I used to give the argument that capitalism sowed the seeds of its own destruction and that it was in crisis and couldn't sustain itself. Unfortunately that was in 1984, i think we've got it for a while yet.

**pennywellhibby** · 09-12-07, 20:38

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Originally Posted by O'Driscoll
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I used to give the argument that capitalism sowed the seeds of its own destruction and that it was in crisis and couldn't sustain itself. Unfortunately that was in 1984, i think we've got it for a while yet.

Oi milli tant hows things

**egb_hibs** · 09-12-07, 20:48

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Originally Posted by O'Driscoll
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I used to give the argument that capitalism sowed the seeds of its own destruction and that it was in crisis and couldn't sustain itself. Unfortunately that was in 1984, i think we've got it for a while yet.

i think it's the marxian analysis that is wrong. capitalism did not burst through failing to redistribute wealth and privilege to the proletariat. ironically it will fail because it succeeded in doing so, and also in dispensing with nations and all that other stuff karl had in mind.

Euskal Hibernia · 09-12-07, 20:51

Not sure if pure capitalism has ever really been tested. We certainly don't have it now as state intervention in markets is massive, both on national and international scales. "Free markets" are only ever allowed to be free when that suits those with the power to control them.

**egb_hibs** · 09-12-07, 21:01

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Originally Posted by Euskal Hibernia
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Not sure if pure capitalism has ever really been tested. We certainly don't have it now as state intervention in markets is massive, both on national and international scales. "Free markets" are only ever allowed to be free when that suits those with the power to control them.

it probably hasn't but it would only magnify the stuff i'm talking about, if it worked well, which i doubt it would.

**Loki_Sproule** · 09-12-07, 21:22

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Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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it's a hard one to call, but some form of authoritarian nationalism or imperialism is probably the way to go.

And there's me thinking that's what we were living under already
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Continental bam · 09-12-07, 22:09

Yes capitalism expresses the worst traits in human nature. Greed is a demon that all of us have to deal with whatever government we have. An insatiable hunger to make money/capital from our resources whatever our start in life compromises the welfare of our neighbor and our natural environment.

Trouble with capitalism is that it's faceless. I don't know what I'm criticising apart from human nature. I suppose you have to believe that co-operation and kindness are somehow more human. This used to be read in our churches, but attendance there is way down now that nobody feels forced to go. I don't depend on religion to provide me with a set of values, but I appreciate its role over the course of history in nurturing good in people.

I have spent a bit of time in poor countries where capitalism is just not going to cut it within. People need clean water, shelter and healthcare. There is no money to be made really in improving these services. Initiative has to come from the richest people in the world to help the poorest although it starts with me and you!

**egb_hibs** · 09-12-07, 22:35

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Originally Posted by Loki_Sproule
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And there's me thinking that's what we were living under already
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in all serious that's mentalist. we live in the most free societies that have ever existed. whether that works remains to be seen. and, incidentally, is down to us not 'the man'

**egb_hibs** · 09-12-07, 22:37

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Originally Posted by Continental bam
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I don't know what I'm criticising apart from human nature.

and hence - and fair play to you - you arrive at the nub of the problem. all the lying fantasist bollocks in the world can't disguise this. capitalism delivers humanity from the shackles. and what we get is what we are.

**Loki_Sproule** · 09-12-07, 23:12

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Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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in all serious that's mentalist. we live in the most free societies that have ever existed. whether that works remains to be seen. and, incidentally, is down to us not 'the man'

Hmm, well, not for much longer if that twat that's in power has anything to do with it. We're careering horribly towards a nanny-state regime and the future isn't bright at all.

However you're right, and I blame those who voted that lot in. In all fairness though, at least it's not the Tories, although there's very little difference these days. Remember when Labour used to be left-wing? Now a horrible, diluted manifestation of neo-liberal Thatcherism. And an inherently sectarian one also, although that's more to do with the monarchy than the government. It's not their fault that the advisor to the Queen has to be of a certain denomination.

I respect your opinion though, and all in all yes you're right, it is a free democracy and we're lucky to be in it, even if it is a bit sh*t.
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Smurf · 09-12-07, 23:18

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Remember when Labour used to be left-wing?

Was that when they didn't redistribute wealth in a massive way and instead spent too much time posturing with beards and beer pretending to be socialists?

New Labour is one fuckin compromise i'll grant you but it's better IMO than permanent Tory rule...

**Loki_Sproule** · 10-12-07, 00:06

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Originally Posted by Smurf
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Was that when they didn't redistribute wealth in a massive way and instead spent too much time posturing with beards and beer pretending to be socialists?

New Labour is one fuckin compromise i'll grant you but it's better IMO than permanent Tory rule...

Sorry, the correct way to have said that would have been "Remember when Labour used to pretend to be left-wing"
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And aye, christ, anything's better than Tory rule. Even Brown
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**O'Driscoll** · 10-12-07, 17:50

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Originally Posted by pennywellhibby
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Oi milli tant hows things

Not bad old boy, are ye goin to the falkirk game, fancy a pint? of good capitalist beer! since they don't sell federation ale in Edinburgh.

**pennywellhibby** · 10-12-07, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by O'Driscoll

09-12-07, 20:08	#1
egb_hibs Khmer Radge Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: From the Capital Posts: 20,706 My Mood: Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Rep Power: 30 vCash: 500 Arcade Stats:	capitalism is doomed surely. the more one clears out all the obscuring and irrelevant chaff chucked up by the guardianistas, chom-issars of the world, the more it's increasingly obvious that it's listing badly. simultaneously redistributing wealth and power out of it's home territories at an unprecedented rate, while cultivating a narcissitic, rapacious population within them, is not a long-game formula. the interesting thing will be what happens next. i think the chinese model looks like the next stage in the game myself, except their typically socialist meddlings with national fertility look to contain the seeds of their demise already. it's a hard one to call, but some form of authoritarian nationalism or imperialism is probably the way to go. __________________ "All democrats object to men being disqualified by the accident of birth; tradition objects to their being disqualified by the accident of death."

09-12-07, 20:24	#3
O'Driscoll Radge Private Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Livingston Age: 44 Posts: 431 My Mood: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 4 vCash: 500 Arcade Stats:	Re: capitalism is doomed I used to give the argument that capitalism sowed the seeds of its own destruction and that it was in crisis and couldn't sustain itself. Unfortunately that was in 1984, i think we've got it for a while yet. __________________ *Newtown where everybody goes around sniffing televisina or taking footbalina*

09-12-07, 20:51	#6
Euskal Hibernia Toddler Radge Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bilbo/Bilbao, Euskadi/Basque Country Posts: 161 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 2 vCash: 500 Arcade Stats:	Re: capitalism is doomed Not sure if pure capitalism has ever really been tested. We certainly don't have it now as state intervention in markets is massive, both on national and international scales. "Free markets" are only ever allowed to be free when that suits those with the power to control them. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Real Sociedad - Athletic Club, 1st derby after legalisation of the Ikurrina flag.

09-12-07, 22:09	#9
Continental bam Football Daft ya Radge Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: here there... Posts: 133 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 3 vCash: 500 Arcade Stats:	Re: capitalism is doomed Yes capitalism expresses the worst traits in human nature. Greed is a demon that all of us have to deal with whatever government we have. An insatiable hunger to make money/capital from our resources whatever our start in life compromises the welfare of our neighbor and our natural environment. Trouble with capitalism is that it's faceless. I don't know what I'm criticising apart from human nature. I suppose you have to believe that co-operation and kindness are somehow more human. This used to be read in our churches, but attendance there is way down now that nobody feels forced to go. I don't depend on religion to provide me with a set of values, but I appreciate its role over the course of history in nurturing good in people. I have spent a bit of time in poor countries where capitalism is just not going to cut it within. People need clean water, shelter and healthcare. There is no money to be made really in improving these services. Initiative has to come from the richest people in the world to help the poorest although it starts with me and you! __________________ << ON LEITH