Godform...

[Greenscratch]

Following on from the water thread, it surprised me a tad that a basic question, (where does all the earths water come from) ended up as a god debate.

For those who believe in an omnipresence, in what form does it take?

I get the feeling that the majority of bouncers are non-believers. But what brought them to this conclusion? Any non-believer I've asked usually comes out with e.g "would god let that auld lady down the street get mugged" etc.

Cheers

[SG7nil]

Originally Posted by Greenscratch
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Following on from the water thread, it surprised me a tad that a basic question, (where does all the earths water come from) ended up as a god debate.

For those who believe in an omnipresence, in what form does it take?

I get the feeling that the majority of bouncers are non-believers. But what brought them to this conclusion? Any non-believer I've asked usually comes out with e.g "would god let that auld lady down the street get mugged" etc.

Cheers

Apologies Mr Scratch, it was me that mentioned God first in that post and it was meant tounge-in-cheek.. it kinda spiralled out of control.

As to what God actually looks like... maybe this :-


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[Stirlinghibee]

This sums up religion for me -

"Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial Teapot, was an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), intended to refute the idea that the burden of proof lies upon the sceptic to disprove unfalsifiable claims of religions. In an article entitled "Is There a God?", commissioned (but never published) by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

In his 2003 book A Devil's Chaplain, Richard Dawkins developed the teapot theme a little further:

The reason organized religion merits outright hostility is that, unlike belief in Russell's teapot, religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves. Children are not compelled to spend their formative years memorizing loony books about teapots. Government-subsidized schools don't exclude children whose parents prefer the wrong shape of teapot. Teapot-believers don't stone teapot-unbelievers, teapot-apostates, teapot-heretics and teapot-blasphemers to death. Mothers don't warn their sons off marrying teapot-shiksas whose parents believe in three teapots rather than one. People who put the milk in first don't kneecap those who put the tea in first.
The concept of Russell's teapot has been extrapolated into humorous, more explicitly religion-parodying forms such as the Invisible Pink Unicorn[2] and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.[3]"

The only part of any religion I like is the statements about morality some make ie Thou shalt not Kill.
If that makes some Humans act like Mother Theresa or Norman Kember then It does some good, However Religion also gives us the Ian Paisleys, Gerry Falwells and Osama bin Ladens.

The "Supernatural" ie God, Miracles etc parts of religion I put along with Santa Claus, The tooth Fairy and The great Pumpkin of Linus.

[Greenscratch]

Originally Posted by SG7nil
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Apologies Mr Scratch, it was me that mentioned God first in that post and it was meant tounge-in-cheek.. it kinda spiralled out of control.

As to what God actually looks like... maybe this :-


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[Greenscratch]

[quote=Stennyhibee;710722]This sums up religion for me -

"[i]Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial Teapot, was an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), intended to refute the idea that the burden of proof lies upon the sceptic to disprove unfalsifiable claims of religions. In an article entitled "Is There a God?", commissioned (but never published) by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

I think the teapot is moot unless it is a creating omnipotent teapot?

'coz you can't see it - it dont exist
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[Brainwrong]

I don't think there is a god but I'm prepared to admit that I might be wrong.

Do ghosts exist? They're about as likely in my opinion.

[am_moroccan]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong
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I don't think there is a god but I'm prepared to admit that I might be wrong.

Do ghosts exist? They're about as likely in my opinion.

that s good you admit that you might be wrong.
there is no doubt about god existance, open your eyes look around you then you would realise that god exist. i am sure you look to ur computer at the moment, and i am sure you wont deny that someone has made it. the chair you sit on was made by some1 right? so how couldnt you deny all these things and you still have doubt in the one who created the sun you look at and the earth you are in, and the sky you gaze at. the proof that some1 is behind all these creations is that everything is in order.


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[KABULHIBBY]

Originally Posted by am_moroccan
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that s good you admit that you might be wrong.
there is no doubt about god existance, open your eyes look around you then you would realise that god exist. i am sure you look to ur computer at the moment, and i am sure you wont deny that someone has made it. the chair you sit on was made by some1 right? so how couldnt you deny all these things and you still have doubt in the one who created the sun you look at and the earth you are in, and the sky you gaze at. the proof that some1 is behind all these creations is that everything is in order.


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Natural evolution is more believable than a unseen spirit who is omnipotent, violent to unbelievers and those classed as sinners (Jericho and Soddom & Gammorah (sp)) but then is compassionate and benevolent.

I'll stick with the science theories thank you very much

[SG7nil]

Originally Posted by am_moroccan
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that s good you admit that you might be wrong.
there is no doubt about god existance, open your eyes look around you then you would realise that god exist. i am sure you look to ur computer at the moment, and i am sure you wont deny that someone has made it. the chair you sit on was made by some1 right? so how couldnt you deny all these things and you still have doubt in the one who created the sun you look at and the earth you are in, and the sky you gaze at. the proof that some1 is behind all these creations is that everything is in order.


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Mr Moroccan I envy you your faith!
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[am_moroccan]

Originally Posted by SG7nil
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Mr Moroccan I envy you your faith!
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the door is open for you SG7nil. you might be better than me
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[Dub]

Originally Posted by Greenscratch
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Following on from the water thread, it surprised me a tad that a basic question, (where does all the earths water come from) ended up as a god debate.

For those who believe in an omnipresence, in what form does it take?

I get the feeling that the majority of bouncers are non-believers. But what brought them to this conclusion? Any non-believer I've asked usually comes out with e.g "would god let that auld lady down the street get mugged" etc.

Cheers

And typically, any godbotherer if asked the question "why did god let that auld lady down the street get mugged" they would invariably reply with the same old mantra "god works in mysterious ways" which translates as "I havent got a clue, fukk off and read the
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if you want answers.

However, although I dont believe in gods existence I have read the
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to see what the fuss is about and its a good example of early, early science fiction IMHO

I'll pop back and read the rest of the replies now
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[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by am_moroccan
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that s good you admit that you might be wrong.
there is no doubt about god existance, open your eyes look around you then you would realise that god exist. i am sure you look to ur computer at the moment, and i am sure you wont deny that someone has made it. the chair you sit on was made by some1 right? so how couldnt you deny all these things and you still have doubt in the one who created the sun you look at and the earth you are in, and the sky you gaze at. the proof that some1 is behind all these creations is that everything is in order.


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It's funny you should say that because when I originally typed a response to this I typed something along the lines of:

The beauty of nature & the universe does not require it to have been created by some being/God for it to be appreciated.

I think the 'Intelligent Design' theory is ludicrous, when I first heard this idea I couldn't believe people actually think that's a valid/realistic theory. To me it sounds like something a young child might come up with.

I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm attacking you. I'm not. I'm just being honest. I don't have a problem with religious people especially when they are resonable people who like to talk rather than shout.

[Dub]

Originally Posted by KABULHIBBY
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Natural evolution is more believable than a unseen spirit who is omnipotent, violent to unbelievers and those classed as sinners (Jericho and Soddom & Gammorah (sp)) but then is compassionate and benevolent.

I'll stick with the science theories thank you very much

Me also MR KH. I wont knock Abdel for his unwavering faith in an omnipotent being as I am sure you wouldnt, good luck to him I say, but I cant see it [pun intended].

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Dub
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Me also MR KH. I wont knock Abdel for his unwavering faith in an omnipotent being as I am sure you wouldnt, good luck to him I say, but I cant see it [pun intended].

Hee hee!

[Greenscratch]

Originally Posted by KABULHIBBY
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Natural evolution is more believable than a unseen spirit who is omnipotent, violent to unbelievers and those classed as sinners (Jericho and Soddom & Gammorah (sp)) but then is compassionate and benevolent.

I'll stick with the science theories thank you very much

So your arguement is against Old Testament pap.
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Taken from the Jewish Books. Cancelled and rewritten in the new testament, from a jewish faction, turning it into another faction, ie Christianity. There were many Religions around this time, as there is now.

But does an ancient jewish book negate an ominpotent being
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Too much mixing of man made religion and the existatnce of god. I think it can be argued that the two are entirely separate issues
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[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Greenscratch
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So your arguement is against Old Testament pap.
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Taken from the Jewish Books. Cancelled and rewritten in the new testament, from a jewish faction, turning it into another faction, ie Christianity. There were many Religions around this time, as there is now.

But does an ancient jewish book negate an ominpotent being
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Too much mixing of man made religion and the existatnce of god. I think it can be argued that the two are entirely separate issues
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Religion free god? That's slightly more appealing but still unbelieveable in my opinion.

[Greenscratch]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong
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Religion free god? That's slightly more appealing but still unbelieveable in my opinion.

God would have to be religion free would it not
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From a believers point of view it has created all the people who have invented all the religion
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[Stirlinghibee]

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"Take that Stennyhibee!!"

[am_moroccan]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong
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It's funny you should say that because when I originally typed a response to this I typed something along the lines of:

The beauty of nature & the universe does not require it to have been created by some being/God for it to be appreciated.

I think the 'Intelligent Design' theory is ludicrous, when I first heard this idea I couldn't believe people actually think that's a valid/realistic theory. To me it sounds like something a young child might come up with.

I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm attacking you. I'm not. I'm just being honest. I don't have a problem with religious people especially when they are resonable people who like to talk rather than shout.

first of all both the believers and unbelievers migh shout.

i was only setting an example trying to make things in sense.. for the believers they dont need such examples like these to realise that there is someone who control evertything in this univers.and that s what muslims,chritians and jews whom believe in the same god believe in.

seeing the intelligent design as a ludicrous theory might mean that things comes by Coincidence if it was not made by God. we dont need to go so far, let us have a look on our bodies and how it is made. is it not in order? am not sure it s coincidence again.



for mate KABULHIBBY.

believing in the unseen spirits is like when we believe that we feel cold hot hurt... things u dont see but you feel. some people say i dont believe in god because i couldnt see him.. well i would say to these , i dont see your brains so i believe you are fouls.lol
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well am not attacking anyone here.. you are free to believe in what you think about.. i just want to make things clear from my side.

good luck for all.
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