If religion had never existed

[Brainwrong]

Would we still have a problems like homophobia, sexisim & racisim? (I'm assuming you view these 'ism's as problems)

I mean religion in the sense of a book with a set of outdated rules.

Is it human nature to hate?

I have a feeling that if we didn't have a set of rules or commandments we might have avoided a lot of pish throughout history. Just a hunch (not being sarcy, by the way).

[GalegoHibs]

This sounds very like an egb post. Not signing in as Brainwrong is he?

Like many of these, What if... type posts it's hard to say how things might have happened other than how they have. No doubt, religion has had a huge impact on society and an effect on these particular topics but even so I would stick my neck out and say yes to your egbesque question.

[BionicRab]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Would we still have a problems like homophobia, sexisim & racism? (I'm assuming you view these 'ism's as problems)

I mean religion in the sense of a book with a set of outdated rules.

Is it human nature to hate?

I have a feeling that if we didn't have a set of rules or commandments we might have avoided a lot of pish throughout history. Just a hunch (not being sarcy, by the way).

I've often thought that people will always have an inclination to do the exact opposite of what they are told to do, i know i did when i was a kid/young adult.
From this i think that if there hadn't been these rules set in stone (pun intended) then maybe over the centuries there wouldn't have been so many reoccurences of people doing the exact opposite of what their beliefs told them to do. i.e. love thy neighbour.
Just a thought

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by BionicRab

I've often thought that people will always have an inclination to do the exact opposite of what they are told to do, i know i did when i was a kid/young adult.
From this i think that if there hadn't been these rules set in stone (pun intended) then maybe over the centuries there wouldn't have been so many reoccurences of people doing the exact opposite of what their beliefs told them to do. i.e. love thy neighbour.
Just a thought

Do you mean that if we didn't have these rules then we'd all be more chilled out and not have the problems I listed above but for different reasons?

[Briant]

If religion had never existed...............................................





We'd have to make it up.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Briant

If religion had never existed...............................................

We'd have to make it up.

I'm pretty sure it's a natural thing for a lot of people to be religious so I'd agree with that. In fact, that's what was done. In my opinion.

[stickyRicky]

No religion then wars would be over something else ridiculous like my dad's bigger than yours.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by stickyRicky

No religion then wars would be over something else ridiculous like my dad's bigger than yours.

At least then we could possibly rationalise the reasons for war and mibby pit the two dads against each other?

Can we get Christ vs. Vishnu in a religious celebrity death match?

[stickyRicky]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

At least then we could possibly rationalise the reasons for war and mibby pit the two dads against each other?

Can we get Christ vs. Vishnu in a religious celebrity death match?

Aye nae tools just fisty cuffs untill the other cant stand or taps out

Make it a 3 way bout with Budda in there

[BionicRab]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Do you mean that if we didn't have these rules then we'd all be more chilled out and not have the problems I listed above but for different reasons?

It's a theory yes.

[SG7nil]

Are you talking about religion in general or christianity in particular?

Most communities regardless of how cut off from the rest of the world they are (or were) managed to invent their own religions. In some cases these were very peaceful beliefs, tolerant of other people and provided guidelines as to how people should behave. However in some extreme cases (Mayans/Incas/Aztecs amongst others) the religion included making sacrifices to their gods, including human ones. These extreme religions can be hard to take from our standpoint, and a case could be made for humanities sake to go to war with believers of them to prevent more needless death.... but who are we to say that they were wrong? What right does anyone have to tell someone else what they can and cannot believe?

[Keepitgreen]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Would we still have a problems like homophobia, sexisim & racisim? (I'm assuming you view these 'ism's as problems)

I mean religion in the sense of a book with a set of outdated rules.

Is it human nature to hate?

I have a feeling that if we didn't have a set of rules or commandments we might have avoided a lot of pish throughout history. Just a hunch (not being sarcy, by the way).

I think we'd still have the same problems. And they might've been a lot worse.

I think that although religion is an out-dated concept today, it definitely had its place in the past; an important place.

It taught morals, rules and respect to people for thousands of years and the effects still resonate today. Of course, it also taught a lot of unnecessary things but the main crux of all religions is to 'treat others as you would like to be treated'; it's the greatest yet most basic of all human principles.

With religion, I think I had 3 phases growing up: Initially, it didn't really interest me and I let it wash over me, then I learned some stuff about a couple of religions and decided I hated all forms of it, and now I'm a balance of the two. I think it has its place but it does not hold any particular interest for me personally.

Seeing religion for what it is, a belief system or faith in something greater than yourself, can become clouded by people who take it all too seriously. It's easy to forget that these religions all have positive lessons to teach us - most people these days seem to have grasped the notion that religion isn't always good, but forget that it is good most of the time - and the positive things don't get talked about nearly as much as the negative.

Ever so slightly, I'm starting to come around to the idea that modern Britain might be in need of a little Christianity. I've always had faith (boom boom) that modern society would evolve and grow into natural organic ambience, but perhaps the guiding hand of religion is needed just a little longer yet?

I'm not sure of that one myself, its an ongoing debate in my head

[BionicRab]

Originally Posted by SG7nil

Are you talking about religion in general or christianity in particular?

Most communities regardless of how cut off from the rest of the world they are (or were) managed to invent their own religions. In some cases these were very peaceful beliefs, tolerant of other people and provided guidelines as to how people should behave. However in some extreme cases (Mayans/Incas/Aztecs amongst others) the religion included making sacrifices to their gods, including human ones. These extreme religions can be hard to take from our standpoint, and a case could be made for humanities sake to go to war with believers of them to prevent more needless death.... but who are we to say that they were wrong? What right does anyone have to tell someone else what they can and cannot believe?

muslim extremists believe that all jews should die dont they?

ministers/priests/rabbi tell people what they can/cannot believe/do as well, no?

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by SG7nil

Are you talking about religion in general or christianity in particular?

Most communities regardless of how cut off from the rest of the world they are (or were) managed to invent their own religions. In some cases these were very peaceful beliefs, tolerant of other people and provided guidelines as to how people should behave. However in some extreme cases (Mayans/Incas/Aztecs amongst others) the religion included making sacrifices to their gods, including human ones. These extreme religions can be hard to take from our standpoint, and a case could be made for humanities sake to go to war with believers of them to prevent more needless death.... but who are we to say that they were wrong? What right does anyone have to tell someone else what they can and cannot believe?

Religion in general. Aye, I agree with the fact that pretty much all communities have ended up with religion of some sort or another. I'm not advocating telling folk what to believe in.

The reason I started the thread was from the thought that if we hadn't had religion in our past we might have not had an instilled set of beliefs about how people should act and behave. And, because of that we would have used our own inbuilt morality to decided what is right and what it wrong.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Keepitgreen

I think we'd still have the same problems. And they might've been a lot worse.

I think that although religion is an out-dated concept today, it definitely had its place in the past; an important place.

It taught morals, rules and respect to people for thousands of years and the effects still resonate today. Of course, it also taught a lot of unnecessary things but the main crux of all religions is to 'treat others as you would like to be treated'; it's the greatest yet most basic of all human principles.

With religion, I think I had 3 phases growing up: Initially, it didn't really interest me and I let it wash over me, then I learned some stuff about a couple of religions and decided I hated all forms of it, and now I'm a balance of the two. I think it has its place but it does not hold any particular interest for me personally.

Seeing religion for what it is, a belief system or faith in something greater than yourself, can become clouded by people who take it all too seriously. It's easy to forget that these religions all have positive lessons to teach us - most people these days seem to have grasped the notion that religion isn't always good, but forget that it is good most of the time - and the positive things don't get talked about nearly as much as the negative.

Ever so slightly, I'm starting to come around to the idea that modern Britain might be in need of a little Christianity. I've always had faith (boom boom) that modern society would evolve and grow into natural organic ambience, but perhaps the guiding hand of religion is needed just a little longer yet?

I'm not sure of that one myself, its an ongoing debate in my head

I don't think we need religion now and I don't think we ever needed it. We are able to be good without a guidebook.

There is no doubt that religion has done good but what my point is that I don't think we need it, I think it's a misconception that we need it as a moral guide.

[Purple & Green]

In 2000 years people will be worshipping Harry Potter, Pottrianity will be rife.

all the isms will have been eradicated to be replaced by new isms.

That's evolution.

[am_moroccan]

Originally Posted by BionicRab

muslim extremists believe that all jews should die dont they?

ministers/priests/rabbi tell people what they can/cannot believe/do as well, no?

you are using a harsh phrase here, it s like the one i sometimes hear from the misguided media stations or from such websites which are against islam.

the main source of muslims are the quran and the hadiths of the prophet peace be upon him and there isnt any verse in the quran that says kill all jews , jews are living among us here in morocco for many centuries and they re still living here.

the issue here is always the palestinian israeli conflicts, for this reason some muslims are against the jewish state of israel and not jews in russia,ukrain, poland and so on. the way israel made their state in palestine is not acceptable for many muslims if i can say all of them, because it s a kind of occupation and oppression of a whole nation of palestine.

[SG7nil]

Originally Posted by Purple & Green

In 2000 years people will be worshipping Harry Potter, Pottrianity will be rife.

all the isms will have been eradicated to be replaced by new isms.

That's evolution.

Forget in 2000 years time.. I worship Harry already.. I want glasses like his and a lightning scar!

And I wouldnae mind a wee crack at Hermione Granger and Ginny Weasley too (if that's ok?)

[Keepitgreen]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

I don't think we need religion now and I don't think we ever needed it. We are able to be good without a guidebook.

There is no doubt that religion has done good but what my point is that I don't think we need it, I think it's a misconception that we need it as a moral guide.

Cool Brainwrong and its a valid point to make, indeed its only recently that I began to think we did need it in some form. I had always previously believed the same as you; that humans should be able make moral choices without religion.

Now, I'm not so sure. Do humans always naturally follow good morals, automatically?

As I say, it's one that I've changed my mind on before, and probably will again. A good debate

[BionicRab]

Originally Posted by am_moroccan

you are using a harsh phrase here, it s like the one i sometimes hear from the misguided media stations or from such websites which are against islam.

the main source of muslims are the quran and the hadiths of the prophet peace be upon him and there isnt any verse in the quran that says kill all jews , jews are living among us here in morocco for many centuries and they re still living here.

the issue here is always the palestinian israeli conflicts, for this reason some muslims are against the jewish state of israel and not jews in russia,ukrain, poland and so on. the way israel made their state in palestine is not acceptable for many muslims if i can say all of them, because it s a kind of occupation and oppression of a whole nation of palestine.

I did use the words muslim extremists, apologies for generalising like that i suppose it's like saying that all catholics are in the IRA....

[BionicRab]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong