The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" - HibeesBounce.com

**Haruki** · 06-08-07, 01:17

There's a big thread on the main board about this book. I'm not here to discuss it's merits. I'm not planning reading it. It strikes me as a "Bravo Two Zero" for the armchair casual or a typical real-life crime historian justifying a violence of which far too many books are written. But I have no experience of this. There's many sides to every story. I'm not judging.

I've read the amazon review and have noticed that Dykes paints Irvine Welsh as not a fighter. I'd really appreciate it if some-one could give me a run down on Dykes opinion of Welsh. In fact do any of you lot know Irvine? I'm intrigued.

**brianmac** · 06-08-07, 05:42

Haven't read the book yet Cam, so i can't really comment on that.

I used to stay with DD and he's a genuine guy. In fact i was staying with him, at his ma's, the day my auld man died. I was only 18 and he helped me a lot in those days.

Have met IW a few times through mutual friends. The friends we have in common certainly used to get involved in a wee bit of violence but IW never got involved when i was there, though he had begun writing by then so maybe that made a bit of a difference.

**egb_hibs** · 06-08-07, 10:05

to paraphrase; he says that while noone grudges IW his success he is irked by the fact that IW has cultivated the impression that he was involved, when he wasn't.

**brianmac** · 06-08-07, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

to paraphrase; he says that while noone grudges IW his success he is irked by the fact that IW has cultivated the impression that he was involved, when he wasn't.

I'm not sure IW has gave that impression. I've never been under that impression anyway

Maybe that's because i know the truth

**egb_hibs** · 06-08-07, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianmac

I'm not sure IW has gave that impression. I've never been under that impression anyway

Maybe that's because i know the truth

DD refers to his contributions to such books as 'Terrace Legends'. I think DD's point is more that this myth has 'been allowed to develop' rather than IW has actively claimed it.

**brianmac** · 06-08-07, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

DD refers to his contributions to such books as 'Terrace Legends'. I think DD's point is more that this myth has 'been allowed to develop' rather than IW has actively claimed it.

Aye, right enough. I forgot all about that book. He certainly seemed a strange choice for that, considering the lads chosen from other teams. Now you mention it, i think being in that book could possibly be construed as 'actively claiming'

Brainwrong · 06-08-07, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

DD refers to his contributions to such books as 'Terrace Legends'. I think DD's point is more that this myth has 'been allowed to develop' rather than IW has actively claimed it.

He's a kind of historian though, you don't have to be involved to report on it. But, I see what you mean.

Colonel Kurtz · 06-08-07, 14:34

IW was a strange choice for terrace legends as was the actor Frank Harper who was representing Millwall. I put it down to them being mates with the author.

**egb_hibs** · 06-08-07, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonel Kurtz

IW was a strange choice for terrace legends as was the actor Frank Harper who was representing Millwall. I put it down to them being mates with the author.

i thought he was meant to be the real thing?

SteveIrwin · 20-08-07, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by camthebam

There's a big thread on the main board about this book. I'm not here to discuss it's merits. I'm not planning reading it. It strikes me as a "Bravo Two Zero" for the armchair casual or a typical real-life crime historian justifying a violence of which far too many books are written. But I have no experience of this. There's many sides to every story. I'm not judging.

I've read the amazon review and have noticed that Dykes paints Irvine Welsh as not a fighter. I'd really appreciate it if some-one could give me a run down on Dykes opinion of Welsh. In fact do any of you lot know Irvine? I'm intrigued.

i often used to wonder where Mr Welsh was coming from. Never once spotted him on "tour" with the crew (home or away). Yet his books relate to a lot of stuff to do with the crew. Maybe its just fictional?

Colonel Kurtz · 20-08-07, 21:00

Irvine has never claimed to be a casual. I remember him saying in an interview that they were not his generation. I thought the critisism of him in These Colours Dont Run was a bit harsh.

FergosMonchacha · 20-08-07, 21:44

IW IMHO writes and has interests in "pop culture" ie the essence of the Cashy movement eg the clothes, music. girls, bevy, drugs (towards the end) and fantastic away days (and nights).

He has commented with a fair degree of accuracy in the past and IMHO well placed to as he has followed the Hibs for years.

Ive got a great story bout the Big man - nothing scandolous just funny and involves the mighty Cabbage.

Will post if requested as I dinny want ti appear wi the glory stories etc etc.

Mon the Hibs

Colonel Kurtz · 20-08-07, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by FergosMonchacha

IW IMHO writes and has interests in "pop culture" ie the essence of the Cashy movement eg the clothes, music. girls, bevy, drugs (towards the end) and fantastic away days (and nights).

He has commented with a fair degree of accuracy in the past and IMHO well placed to as he has followed the Hibs for years.

Ive got a great story bout the Big man - nothing scandolous just funny and involves the mighty Cabbage.

Will post if requested as I dinny want ti appear wi the glory stories etc etc.

Mon the Hibs

Requested. Lets hear it then. Ive met him a few times and always found him a decent enough bloke

**Haruki** · 20-08-07, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by FergosMonchacha

IW IMHO writes and has interests in "pop culture" ie the essence of the Cashy movement eg the clothes, music. girls, bevy, drugs (towards the end) and fantastic away days (and nights).

He has commented with a fair degree of accuracy in the past and IMHO well placed to as he has followed the Hibs for years.

Ive got a great story bout the Big man - nothing scandolous just funny and involves the mighty Cabbage.

Will post if requested as I dinny want ti appear wi the glory stories etc etc.

Mon the Hibs

It's requested. PM me it if you'd rather.

FergosMonchacha · 20-08-07, 21:56

cam

if yer writin a book on him I want the credits....

**Haruki** · 20-08-07, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FergosMonchacha

cam

if yer writin a book on him I want the credits....

Nah, aint writing a book on him. Just intrigued by him. "Trainspottin" was very relevant to a young camthebam. I've never mainlined smack but it was more just the drug culture in Scotland wasn't something I'd ever read about in literature before. I thought it was ground-breaking.

Think his new one "If you like school.." is a very welcome return to form. Kinda new ground for Irvine but very readable. Admittedly "The kingdom of Fife" reverts to type but I think it's the funniest thing he's written. Ya hoor, sor.

FergosMonchacha · 20-08-07, 22:34

Years back we were off to watch the Hibs at Firhill.

Match was a tuesday night after the first didny go ahead due to cup/weather issues.

Meant to be 3 of us as usual for the away jaunt and an early start round the bars in Reekie.

Mate got huckled big style by the pissed off missus and was under orders not to go to the match so it was me an wee Aldo off ti watch the Cabbage hopefully secure the 3 points in the west......

Poppod into the old bar that used to be the Talisman?? im sure in Waverley before it was all done up - the bars awrite in there now actually - was in there last week!

Also went ti the bar when we got in and I was looin fir a seat - saw Aldo pointi at 2 boys sittin huddled the gether bletherin close into one another. Aldo it transpires wiz alertin me ti the fact that it was indeed IW and his mate (Paul ?).

No bein the shyest type I wondered over and asked if they were off to the match at Firhill ti watch the Hibs?

"are Hibs playin the night" came the answer from a sheets to the wind IW.

"aye" came the reply from my now joined mate.

we took our seats, got bletherin with IW insistin we get the 11 doon Leith and off ti the match??

"naw we're away the night" I informed him.

"aw right" cane thevacant reply!

Proceeded ti get a nice wee Tennants carry out fir the Train with smokes already rolled. Got on the Bathgate train instead of the glasgay one and only got off after shoutin our heads off just as we left.

Sparked up got on the train where IW proceeded ti spill many can of mr lager........

Intae a fast black post tube in glasgay where we resumed our chorus of Hibs songs. Mr Cab driver got all humpty wi the rather heartfelt podms from the East about his hometown. Saw him have a quiet word wi the polisman outside the ground as we exited stage taxi.

In the ground, took our pews and after about 3 mins enter Mr Glasgay Polis Man and lifts our literary hero Mr Welsh.

All over the papers the next day quoting his real age (apparently 40 at the time??).

Oh and the Cabbage drew 0-0.......

Altogether now.........

**Haruki** · 20-08-07, 23:04

Cheers Fergos.

He mightn't have been a casual. He's a f#ckin Hibee though. 'mon the Irvine

Can't remember seeing that in the papers but more kudos to him for it. Getting lifted at a Partick Thistle game? Ah, Strathclyde's finest. One step above the ned. Just.

By the way, all bouncers : beg, steal or borrow "If you liked school..." for "The Kingdom of Fife" alone. One of the funniest things you'll ever read. Ya hoor, sor.

**egb_hibs** · 20-08-07, 23:27

as i;ve said before i don't think IW has moved on and developed his undeniable talent. the grotesque set ups of his later books leave me somewhat unfazed.

in my view trainspotting was phenomenal - i could stab myself for giving my first edition away to some bint, except, fuck it, when i consider the 'big picture', it was worth it

but in my view his crowning achievement was MSN, and especially the scene were the radge punch the tramp then give him money - a battering insight into the brutalised sociopathic edges of that scene where the thing that is most disturbing is the ability to deliver extreme violence without any underlying ill will. it's a thing i never got my head round and he's the only one that's ever captured it imho.

psychocandy · 20-08-07, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by camthebam

Cheers Fergos.

He mightn't have been a casual. He's a f#ckin Hibee though. 'mon the Irvine

Can't remember seeing that in the papers but more kudos to him for it. Getting lifted at a Partick Thistle game? Ah, Strathclyde's finest. One step above the ned. Just.

By the way, all bouncers : beg, steal or borrow "If you liked school..." for "The Kingdom of Fife" alone. One of the funniest things you'll ever read. Ya hoor, sor.

going to be looking for a copy tomorrow for the kingdom of fife alone, have heard from several people it's irvin back to his best.

**Haruki** · 20-08-07, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

as i;ve said before i don't think IW has moved on and developed his undeniable talent. the grotesque set ups of his later books leave me somewhat unfazed.

in my view trainspotting was phenomenal - i could stab myself for giving my first edition away to some bint, except, fuck it, when i consider the 'big picture', it was worth it

but in my view his crowning achievement was MSN, and especially the scene were the radge punch the tramp then give him money - a battering insight into the brutalised sociopathic edges of that scene where the thing that is most disturbing is the ability to deliver extreme violence without any underlying ill will. it's a thing i never got my head round and he's the only one that's ever captured it imho.

I disagree entirely. I thought MSN was rubbish. A feeble in-joke for Hibees at most. And the smart-ass lay out of the text? I could have written that in the 2nd year of high-school.

Have you read "If you liked school.." egb? I think he finally has moved on. Quite a mature work IMHO. Americanised and somewhat Carver-esque in my view. Far superior than his, you're right, obsession wiht the "grotesque" of late. "The bedroom secrets.." was an embarassment for a man of his talents. Seriously E, he's moved on big time with his latest. And, at risk of repitition : "The Kingdom of Fife" is very, very funny.

**Green Sleeves** · 21-08-07, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by camthebam

I disagree entirely. I thought MSN was rubbish. A feeble in-joke for Hibees at most. And the smart-ass lay out of the text? I could have written that in the 2nd year of high-school.

Have you read "If you liked school.." egb? I think he finally has moved on. Quite a mature work IMHO. Americanised and somewhat Carver-esque in my view. Far superior than his, you're right, obsession wiht the "grotesque" of late. "The bedroom secrets.." was an embarassment for a man of his talents. Seriously E, he's moved on bi

06-08-07, 01:17	#1
Haruki Radge Private Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tokyo Age: 34 Posts: 1,578 Casino cash: £6373 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts Rep Power: 4	The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" There's a big thread on the main board about this book. I'm not here to discuss it's merits. I'm not planning reading it. It strikes me as a "Bravo Two Zero" for the armchair casual or a typical real-life crime historian justifying a violence of which far too many books are written. But I have no experience of this. There's many sides to every story. I'm not judging. I've read the amazon review and have noticed that Dykes paints Irvine Welsh as not a fighter. I'd really appreciate it if some-one could give me a run down on Dykes opinion of Welsh. In fact do any of you lot know Irvine? I'm intrigued.

06-08-07, 05:42	#2
brianmac I ain't getting on no plane, ya radge Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungry and homeless, please help. Age: 40 Posts: 4,851 Casino cash: £4590 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 305 Thanked 97 Times in 77 Posts Rep Power: 10	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" Haven't read the book yet Cam, so i can't really comment on that. I used to stay with DD and he's a genuine guy. In fact i was staying with him, at his ma's, the day my auld man died. I was only 18 and he helped me a lot in those days. Have met IW a few times through mutual friends. The friends we have in common certainly used to get involved in a wee bit of violence but IW never got involved when i was there, though he had begun writing by then so maybe that made a bit of a difference. __________________

06-08-07, 10:05	#3
egb_hibs Khmer Radge Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: From the Capital Posts: 19,110 Casino cash: £19224 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Rep Power: 28	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" to paraphrase; he says that while noone grudges IW his success he is irked by the fact that IW has cultivated the impression that he was involved, when he wasn't.

06-08-07, 14:34	#8
Colonel Kurtz Toddler Radge Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Up River Age: 39 Posts: 77 Casino cash: £250 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 2	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" IW was a strange choice for terrace legends as was the actor Frank Harper who was representing Millwall. I put it down to them being mates with the author.

20-08-07, 21:00	#11
Colonel Kurtz Toddler Radge Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Up River Age: 39 Posts: 77 Casino cash: £250 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 2	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" Irvine has never claimed to be a casual. I remember him saying in an interview that they were not his generation. I thought the critisism of him in These Colours Dont Run was a bit harsh. __________________ ''The Man Dont Give A Fuck''

20-08-07, 21:44	#12
FergosMonchacha Adult Radge Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Exiled In England Posts: 312 Casino cash: £477 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 2	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" IW IMHO writes and has interests in "pop culture" ie the essence of the Cashy movement eg the clothes, music. girls, bevy, drugs (towards the end) and fantastic away days (and nights). He has commented with a fair degree of accuracy in the past and IMHO well placed to as he has followed the Hibs for years. Ive got a great story bout the Big man - nothing scandolous just funny and involves the mighty Cabbage. Will post if requested as I dinny want ti appear wi the glory stories etc etc. Mon the Hibs

20-08-07, 21:56	#15
FergosMonchacha Adult Radge Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Exiled In England Posts: 312 Casino cash: £477 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 2	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" cam if yer writin a book on him I want the credits....

20-08-07, 22:34	#17
FergosMonchacha Adult Radge Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Exiled In England Posts: 312 Casino cash: £477 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 2	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" Years back we were off to watch the Hibs at Firhill. Match was a tuesday night after the first didny go ahead due to cup/weather issues. Meant to be 3 of us as usual for the away jaunt and an early start round the bars in Reekie. Mate got huckled big style by the pissed off missus and was under orders not to go to the match so it was me an wee Aldo off ti watch the Cabbage hopefully secure the 3 points in the west...... Poppod into the old bar that used to be the Talisman?? im sure in Waverley before it was all done up - the bars awrite in there now actually - was in there last week! Also went ti the bar when we got in and I was looin fir a seat - saw Aldo pointi at 2 boys sittin huddled the gether bletherin close into one another. Aldo it transpires wiz alertin me ti the fact that it was indeed IW and his mate (Paul ?). No bein the shyest type I wondered over and asked if they were off to the match at Firhill ti watch the Hibs? "are Hibs playin the night" came the answer from a sheets to the wind IW. "aye" came the reply from my now joined mate. we took our seats, got bletherin with IW insistin we get the 11 doon Leith and off ti the match?? "naw we're away the night" I informed him. "aw right" cane thevacant reply! Proceeded ti get a nice wee Tennants carry out fir the Train with smokes already rolled. Got on the Bathgate train instead of the glasgay one and only got off after shoutin our heads off just as we left. Sparked up got on the train where IW proceeded ti spill many can of mr lager........ Intae a fast black post tube in glasgay where we resumed our chorus of Hibs songs. Mr Cab driver got all humpty wi the rather heartfelt podms from the East about his hometown. Saw him have a quiet word wi the polisman outside the ground as we exited stage taxi. In the ground, took our pews and after about 3 mins enter Mr Glasgay Polis Man and lifts our literary hero Mr Welsh. All over the papers the next day quoting his real age (apparently 40 at the time??). Oh and the Cabbage drew 0-0....... Altogether now.........

20-08-07, 23:04	#18
Haruki Radge Private Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tokyo Age: 34 Posts: 1,578 Casino cash: £6373 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts Rep Power: 4	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" Cheers Fergos. He mightn't have been a casual. He's a f#ckin Hibee though. 'mon the Irvine Can't remember seeing that in the papers but more kudos to him for it. Getting lifted at a Partick Thistle game? Ah, Strathclyde's finest. One step above the ned. Just. By the way, all bouncers : beg, steal or borrow "If you liked school..." for "The Kingdom of Fife" alone. One of the funniest things you'll ever read. Ya hoor, sor. __________________ Quieter than the inside of an iceberg

20-08-07, 23:27	#19
egb_hibs Khmer Radge Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: From the Capital Posts: 19,110 Casino cash: £19224 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Rep Power: 28	Re: The Irvine Welsh mentions on "These colours don't run" as i;ve said before i don't think IW has moved on and developed his undeniable talent. the grotesque set ups of his later books leave me somewhat unfazed. in my view trainspotting was phenomenal - i could stab myself for giving my first edition away to some bint, except, fuck it, when i consider the 'big picture', it was worth it but in my view his crowning achievement was MSN, and especially the scene were the radge punch the tramp then give him money - a battering insight into the brutalised sociopathic edges of that scene where the thing that is most disturbing is the ability to deliver extreme violence without any underlying ill will. it's a thing i never got my head round and he's the only one that's ever captured it imho.