Embra Football

[Brainwrong]

Why, in a city the size of Edinburgh (population higher than Liverpool) do we have such a mince turn out for our teams, can we blame it all on the Infirm? Were we both (Hibs & Hertz) just not successful enough on the European stage in the 60s & 70s to create a larger historic fanbase outwith Embra? Still doesn't explain the low attendances at home matches, I suppose. Is it just a general feeling in Scotland that our football isn't worth watching? I mean, even the most dull EPL matches are made to look phenominal on Sky making the average/armchair fan proud (and possibly deluded) as to the standard of football they've just watch and therefore the stature of his club and then therefore meaning that they're much happier to be associated with said club (?). Could be pish. Ach, it'll just be the fact that naeb'dy wins anything on a regular basis out with the Infirm. Yep, they're to blame.

[SoulBamRab]

1 Champions League football 2 scousers are thieving kants so have more money to got to games 3 population in and around merseyside is bigger overall...

[OJHIBS]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Why, in a city the size of Edinburgh (population higher than Liverpool) do we have such a mince turn out for our teams, can we blame it all on the Infirm? Were we both (Hibs & Hertz) just not successful enough on the European stage in the 60s & 70s to create a larger historic fanbase outwith Embra? Still doesn't explain the low attendances at home matches, I suppose. Is it just a general feeling in Scotland that our football isn't worth watching? I mean, even the most dull EPL matches are made to look phenominal on Sky making the average/armchair fan proud (and possibly deluded) as to the standard of football they've just watch and therefore the stature of his club and then therefore meaning that they're much happier to be associated with said club (?). Could be pish. Ach, it'll just be the fact that naeb'dy wins anything on a regular basis out with the Infirm. Yep, they're to blame.

Don't underestimate the amount of glory hunters in Embra. The feckers had shops in our city centre for crying out loud (rangers don't anymore thankfully)

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by OJHIBS

Don't underestimate the amount of glory hunters in Embra. The feckers had shops in our city centre for crying out loud (rangers don't anymore thankfully)

That does my nut in. Cannae blame tourists for thinking there are only two teams in Scotland when that's the case.

I've toyed with the idea of setting up a football shop (before those jambos set up Football Nation on Lothian road). It'd be called somthing like The Real Fitbaw Shop, have Hibs & Hearts gear, Shirts from all the big clubs in Europe but also provide a service of getting any shirt you wanted. It's also sell tickets for all Hibs & Hertz matches. Could also do the rugby stuff too and hopefully get some latent Hibby & Jambos back into fitbaw by exposure that they wouldn't normally have. However, I reckon you have to be in Princes Street to really make it work for tourists and the rent would be too much to run a business like that. Maybe one day.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Why, in a city the size of Edinburgh (population higher than Liverpool) do we have such a mince turn out for our teams, can we blame it all on the Infirm? Were we both (Hibs & Hertz) just not successful enough on the European stage in the 60s & 70s to create a larger historic fanbase outwith Embra? Still doesn't explain the low attendances at home matches, I suppose. Is it just a general feeling in Scotland that our football isn't worth watching? I mean, even the most dull EPL matches are made to look phenominal on Sky making the average/armchair fan proud (and possibly deluded) as to the standard of football they've just watch and therefore the stature of his club and then therefore meaning that they're much happier to be associated with said club (?). Could be pish. Ach, it'll just be the fact that naeb'dy wins anything on a regular basis out with the Infirm. Yep, they're to blame.

Bristol doesn't do too well either or Leicester or Nottingham (these days) or Leeds

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by bionicrab

1 Champions League football 2 scousers are thieving kants so have more money to got to games 3 population in and around merseyside is bigger overall...

Aye, they've had a decent amount of consistent success which is why I think they have the larger support. That's it really. Shows you the average psyche.

[superbam]

I think a factor is that a massive proportion of Edinburgh's population are not Edinburgh-born. Many are students or young adults spending a few years in the city, I heard this accounted for nearly 40% of the population. So since there are so many people living in the city who have no connection to either club, it may be one of the reasons why our attendances look small when compared to the size of the city.

[Johnny Kash]

Originally Posted by Colr

Bristol doesn't do too well either or Leicester or Nottingham (these days) or Leeds

Cant agree with you on that. Forest and Leeds will both average at least 20k this season whilst playing in the third tier of English footie, which is pretty good IMO.

Bristol is a different story and should really be supporting a Premiership team but its two teams have always underachieved.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by superbam

I think a factor is that a massive proportion of Edinburgh's population are not Edinburgh-born. Many are students or young adults spending a few years in the city, I heard this accounted for nearly 40% of the population. So since there are so many people living in the city who have no connection to either club, it may be one of the reasons why our attendances look small when compared to the size of the city.

Feck, I didn't realise it was that high!

[SkyeHibs]

Well if you start from the situation that a far higher percentage of the population in Scotland attend football matches on a regular basis than is the case in engerlund it does make the point that there is demand for football in Scotland.

What has changed since the rangers revolution and the arrival of the man with the bunnet at Celtic is their average attendancies and season ticket numbers have gone through the roof.

I am convinced that a large part of this is folk wanting to associate with teams that are winning honours.

I do believe that we have done well in increasing season ticket sales over the last five years and that our potential is much greater than today but we would have to up our capacity through re-developing the east stand. The west and the famous five are regularly sold out and we have to offer good facilities if we are to continue to grow.

A team challenging for honours and getting into Europe would benefit from the long-term trend of economic growth and migration into the east of Scotland.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by LanarkHibs

Well if you start from the situation that a far higher percentage of the population in Scotland attend football matches on a regular basis than is the case in engerlund it does make the point that there is demand for football in Scotland.

Wasn't aware of that. Do you have more info on that?

Originally Posted by LanarkHibs

What has changed since the rangers revolution and the arrival of the man with the bunnet at Celtic is their average attendancies and season ticket numbers have gone through the roof.

I am convinced that a large part of this is folk wanting to associate with teams that are winning honours.

Yep, agree with that.

Originally Posted by LanarkHibs

I do believe that we have done well in increasing season ticket sales over the last five years and that our potential is much greater than today but we would have to up our capacity through re-developing the east stand. The west and the famous five are regularly sold out and we have to offer good facilities if we are to continue to grow.

A team challenging for honours and getting into Europe would benefit from the long-term trend of economic growth and migration into the east of Scotland.

We've done really well. The East probably does put folk off although any redevelopment should attempt to keep the atmosphere. Get an accoustics expert in to scare the shite out the away end.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Wasn't aware of that. Do you have more info on that?



Yep, agree with that.



We've done really well. The East probably does put folk off although any redevelopment should attempt to keep the atmosphere. Get an accoustics expert in to scare the shite out the away end.

I didn't mean a scary accoustics expert...

[Greenmachine]

Various reasons why Hibs and Hearts do not have much bigger crowds :

1/ Edinburgh is not a football city.

As a previous poster said a very large amount of the population in Edinburgh were not born here. They have no interest in football. There is also the Rugby factor, in that Edinburgh is probably more well known for it's fee paying schools and Murrayfield. Have you ever wondered why Scotlands National Rugby stadium is slap bang in the west side of Edinburgh ? Add to that the millions that have been invested into it through debentures and such like, and imo the two Edinburgh football clubs have been given a raw deal from the ex-privtae school buisiness community. Hibs and Hearts are two footballing communities in the city and outlying areas, but the city doesn't really take them seriously enough IMO. Edinburgh is much more famous for it's arts and it's culture than it is for it's football. Cities like Glasgow, Liverpool, and Manchester are large urban cities with a high working class population who are steeped in football. I'm afraid Edinburgh is not, although it is by far the most beautiful city in the UK.

2/ The Old Firm factor :

There are more Old Firm football fans in Edinburgh and the lothians than there are Hibs or Hearts fans. Thousands of them, and they tend to be the worst kind of bigots. Sectarianism is what keeps both Rangers and Celtic in the "exalted" staus which they hold in Scottish society. It is as as rampant here and in the small outlying towns of Midlothian, East Lothian, and most definately in West Lothian.

3/ Marketing and ambition:

Hibs and Hearts have failed dismally to market their clubs properly amongst the new intake of people in Edinburgh. I am still of the opinion that Hibs are some way short of maximising their potential as a football club. It will take men of vision and ambition to make this a reality. Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have done superbly well to turn the club around financially, but they have yet to show me that they can take the club to the next level on the football side, which is where we all want to be. It will take a change of ownership for that to happen.

There are other reasons, and i'm sure other bouncers will be able to come up with some.

[TattooedHibee]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine

Various reasons why Hibs and Hearts do not have much bigger crowds :

1/ Edinburgh is not a football city.

As a previous poster said a very large amount of the population in Edinburgh were not born here. They have no interest in football. There is also the Rugby factor, in that Edinburgh is probably more well known for it's fee paying schools and Murrayfield. Have you ever wondered why Scotlands National Rugby stadium is slap bang in the west side of Edinburgh ? Add to that the millions that have been invested into it through debentures and such like, and imo the two Edinburgh football clubs have been given a raw deal from the ex-privtae school buisiness community. Hibs and Hearts are two footballing communities in the city and outlying areas, but the city doesn't really take them seriously enough IMO. Edinburgh is much more famous for it's arts and it's culture than it is for it's football. Cities like Glasgow, Liverpool, and Manchester are large urban cities with a high working class population who are steeped in football. I'm a afraid Edinburgh is not, although it is by far the most beautiful city in the UK.

2/ The Old Firm factor :

There are more Old Firm football fans in Edinburgh and the lothians than there are Hibs or Hearts fans. Thousands of them, and they tend to be the worst kind of bigots. Sectarianism is what keeps both Rangers and Celtic in the "exalted" staus which they hold in Scottish society. It is as as rampant here and in the small outlying towns of Midlothian, East Lothian, andmost definately in West Lothian.

3/ Marketing and ambition:

Hibs and Hearts have failed dismally to market their clubs properly amongst the new intake of people in Edinburgh. I am still of the opinion that Hibs are some way short of maximising their potential as a football club. It will take men of vision and ambition to make this a reality. Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have done superbly well to turn the club around financially, but they have yet to show me that they can take the club to the next level on the football side, which is where we all want to be. It will take a change of ownership for that to happen.

There are other reasons, and i'm sure other bouncers will be able to come up with some.

Thanks for answering for me Greenmachine.

[SkyeHibs]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Wasn't aware of that. Do you have more info on that?

It has been researched and documented and I have it in a book that came out a couple of years ago that I can't find at the moment.

Apparently Scotland, Iceland and Cyprus have the highest number of folk as a percentage of the population who regularly go to football in Europe.

[emerald green]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Why, in a city the size of Edinburgh (population higher than Liverpool) do we have such a mince turn out for our teams, can we blame it all on the Infirm? Were we both (Hibs & Hertz) just not successful enough on the European stage in the 60s & 70s to create a larger historic fanbase outwith Embra? Still doesn't explain the low attendances at home matches, I suppose. Is it just a general feeling in Scotland that our football isn't worth watching? I mean, even the most dull EPL matches are made to look phenominal on Sky making the average/armchair fan proud (and possibly deluded) as to the standard of football they've just watch and therefore the stature of his club and then therefore meaning that they're much happier to be associated with said club (?). Could be pish. Ach, it'll just be the fact that naeb'dy wins anything on a regular basis out with the Infirm. Yep, they're to blame.

I've read (on this board) that there is something like 7,000 ST holder for darkheid with an EH post code - not sure if this is fact. To be honest I think most people get 'tired' and 'worn out' by the continued OF dominance. Look at the stats for Scotland, even from the end of WW2. Hibs and Rangers basically were top two for a few years - celtic went something like 13years without winning a league - then Stein came along and transformed them. The yams had a team for a few years - terrible trio time, who underachieved. Hibs had another team in the early 70s who underachieved. Ned sorted out the sheep for a few years very early 70s - won a cup. You then have to rotate forward to the (ahem) New Firm. IIRC the sheep under ferguson are the only team to do a double since WW2 outwith Rantic.

Theses are from the top of my head, so i may be out here or there. but you ask people in their 50s and 60s regarding Rantic getting everythin and they'll tell you its always been that way.

Personally - I dont mind a particular team dominating - it happens in EVERY country (EG Man Utd have won more premierships than the rest of england put together). What gets to me up here is the 1 rule for Rantic and another for everyone else, ably backed up by the Glasgow press. They are basically allowed to cheat. The huns could put the shitest team in the world out and they would still get 2nd place in our league. A team is hardly going to beat them when the eg linesman is a fully paid up flute tootin' lodge member. Honks I tell ye

[SkyeHibs]

Originally Posted by emerald green

Look at the stats for Scotland, even from the end of WW2. Hibs and Rangers basically were top two for a few years - celtic went something like 13years without winning a league - then Stein came along and transformed them.

And there are seasons in that period where Hibs had bigger crowds than Celtic that kind of makes the point that success on the park has some kind of link with numbers through the gates. I did an article on this for the bounce sometime ago. I shall try and dig it out.

[persevered]

Rugby has taken a massive dip in popularity so this is not really a factor.

I think we could do a lot better marketing of the club and try to reach the potential market.

Old firm fans with an EH postcode is kind of acceptable if your roots are from the west but nothing pisses me of more than someone with no ties to west who support the old firm.

Hibs are at their core a community club and this is why the bond between fans and the club is very strong. This is something Mercer failed to understand and was why the takeover bid was always doomed to fail. Hibs could easily build on this core support with some of the 40% of the temp Edinburgh residents.

[KABULHIBBY]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

That does my nut in. Cannae blame tourists for thinking there are only two teams in Scotland when that's the case.

I've toyed with the idea of setting up a football shop (before those jambos set up Football Nation on Lothian road). It'd be called somthing like The Real Fitbaw Shop, have Hibs & Hearts gear, Shirts from all the big clubs in Europe but also provide a service of getting any shirt you wanted. It's also sell tickets for all Hibs & Hertz matches. Could also do the rugby stuff too and hopefully get some latent Hibby & Jambos back into fitbaw by exposure that they wouldn't normally have. However, I reckon you have to be in Princes Street to really make it work for tourists and the rent would be too much to run a business like that. Maybe one day.

IF you really are serious about that type of venture then initially the best bet would be to look for established places that are willing to lease out parts of their real estate, similar to the deal Hibs had with Debenhams whilst the shop was being refitted.

Failing that you could always approach the rugby shop at Shandwick Place,IIRC, to find out if they would do a sell through for you.

The ticket thing would be dangerous ground in Scotland and you could well face extreme police objection due to segregation issues.