Heroin

[Davy]

Seeing as the debate over cannabis is running I thought Id start something on Heroin. Now firstly Im not trying to make it acceptable in fact I think it is an utter pointless waste of human life to use it....however


Many many users having been or are still using it are usually prescribed methadone as a substitute. The problem is methadone is probably more addictive and is reported to be harder to come off than heroin itself so all it does is replace the need for heroin or cut the need for so much, but does little to help cut drug dependency. Some people of course never want to come off methadone even although they say it doesnt actually give you the high heroin does....in fact it gives you no high at all! so whats the point?

DF'S are supposed to be more effective in waning people off heroin yet the expensive mathadone programme is what most people are placed on with little success in getting users clean. Some suggest as its easier to wane users from heroin it would be better prescribing heroin from a chemist which would do 3 things. 1) cut out the black market for heroin 2) cut the chances remarkably of users developing infections from "dirty heroin" and dirty needles. 3) givew those who want to give up a better chance as its easier to come off heroin.

Anyway Im not claiming to be an expert so Im just sticking this up for discussion, there are thousands of addicts in Scotland not to mention Edinburgh. Outlawing drugs has never worked and made many people rich and many more dead. Whats your thoughts (ps please dont get personal and insulting as to what you think of users as many people on the bounce will likely know someone who has died or been affected by drugs and this is not the place to be on your high horse as this issue affects so many people)

[Colr]

Or you could follow the logic of it being illegal. Its therefore illegal to be a drug addict therefore they can be forced to go into a form of jail/rehab were they are forced to come of it and are only allowed out when they are clean. Costly but would it be cheaper than the current social costs and force more addicts off their habit.

[PILTONSTANY]

Originally Posted by Colr
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Or you could follow the logic of it being illegal. Its therefore illegal to be a drug addict therefore they can be forced to go into a form of jail/rehab were they are forced to come of it and are only allowed out when they are clean. Costly but would it be cheaper than the current social costs and force more addicts off their habit.

Would you seriously want at least 500,000 people locked up for being addicted to something?

Jail doesn't work as has been proved many times and rehab only works if people actually want to come off it.

Something in the middle of rehab and and a lower dosage of heroin each time until off it would seem the obvious way to do it but that would mean the black and white situation of drug abuse going grey and the government couldn't possibly have that,could it?

[Decal Joe]

I would be even more grumpy than normal if the money I pay to the NHS through my stamp was paying for wasters to feed an addiction.

My Grandad used to talk about putting all the baddies on a big island and letting them get on with it, in his day that Island probably would have a population of Junkies, Gays and criminals but now that times have changed I don't think we could get away with banishing all these groups
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What about givin those folk that need it as many drugs as they want on the proviso that they are also issued with a gun and are sent to Iraq and Afghanistan thus freeing up British Soldiers to help with things around these parts. Just a thought

[HaarlemShuffler]

Originally Posted by Decal Joe
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What about givin those folk that need it as many drugs as they want on the proviso that they are also issued with a gun and are sent to Iraq and Afghanistan thus freeing up British Soldiers to help with things around these parts. Just a thought

I agree with the emboldened part of your none-too-left-of-centre post
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Over here in Holland, they have had quite a lot of success with just letting the heroin junkies get on with it, and even topping them up from time to time. Thing is, many junkies can carry on a 'normal' life with regular usage, taking them out of the car-theft and third-party dealer circuits, as they can get by on what they earn in their jobs, which many of them surprisingly then seem able to hold down.

Saves on health costs for ODs and rehab which mounts up to a huge amount. Also cuts down police time spent on thefts and small burglaries.

Before you dismiss this out of hand, ask yourself this. How long will it take to win the war on drugs?

Longer than the war on Terrorism, I would think.

Being a grown-up species, we have to admit there is always going to be a small minority who take drugs in some form or other, it's been going since shaman times and I would guess the small percentage who regularly do isn't going to change much in future.

More than 90% of folk do NOT end up hooked on drugs, they tend to grow out of it or out of the circumstances that engender addiction. Let it be so.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by PILTONSTANY
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Would you seriously want at least 500,000 people locked up for being addicted to something?

Jail doesn't work as has been proved many times and rehab only works if people actually want to come off it.

Something in the middle of rehab and and a lower dosage of heroin each time until off it would seem the obvious way to do it but that would mean the black and white situation of drug abuse going grey and the government couldn't possibly have that,could it?

Only 21,000 on methodone. It doesn't work either. Go along with you idea, though, something like rehab with a withdrawal programme. Methadone doesn't deal with the problem the addict has.

[Brainwrong]

Good to read some liberal views on this. I've know a couple of junkies, one that delt drugs to fund the habit and one that did a 9-5. I won't take it as I know I'd probably get hooked and I have a couple of kids so I wouldn't feck their lives up just so I could have a good time. However, once I'm retired I might give it a go!

[SoulBamRab]

I heard this rumour a few years back but think it may be one of those urban myths; methadone was introduced to the masses in the US by the CIA when they had massive problems with heroin addicts in the seventies and eighties purely to quell the people and keep them hooked.... As i say i dont know if its got any truth but it does have a dodgy ring to it i reckon.

Also methadone as mentioned before is probably the most addictive prescribed drug ever so why would any GP recommend a patient uses it to try and get off the smack? I've got a couple of mates who've been on it for years now and they get a masive daily dose as well. One of them has no teeth at all doesn't work and is one of these guys who just takes the system for all he can. The other works as much as he can, he's a joiner but he just got diagnosed with Emphysema, so he's obviously a bit banjo'd. It's not good for y9ou needless to say and gives you brittle bone disease as well.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by bionicrab
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I heard this rumour a few years back but think it may be one of those urban myths; methadone was introduced to the masses in the US by the CIA when they had massive problems with heroin addicts in the seventies and eighties purely to quell the people and keep them hooked.... As i say i dont know if its got any truth but it does have a dodgy ring to it i reckon.

This is between assassinating JFK and blowing up the twin towers?

[SoulBamRab]

Originally Posted by Colr
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This is between assassinating JFK and blowing up the twin towers?

Yeah probably col but there could be some truth in it somewhere don't you think, someones whos on meth is more or less incapacitated mentally and physically, would save the US government a whole lot of hassle from would be criminals.