Surely not...?

[Colr]

One in 14 baffled by maths poser for child of 8


One in 14 adults cannot answer a basic maths question aimed at eight-year-old children, according to a survey released yesterday.

The results from a poll of 2,000 adults follow comments made earlier this month by Ed Balls, the Schools Secretary.

Mr Balls has announced a review of children's policy for the next 10 years.
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He announced a major inquiry into the way children are taught maths amid concern that too many school leavers are unable to add up.

The survey found that basic numeracy skills were on the decline, with 96 per cent of those aged 55 and older able to answer a "simple" question, taken from an eight-year-old's maths paper, correctly - compared with 88 per cent of those aged 18 to 25.

The question posed was: What is one eighth of 32?

The answers were: a) 6 b) 4 c) 2 d) 8 e) None of these f) Don't know.

The research, by ITV DVD, also showed that parents are starting to realise the extent to which pre-school learning helps later in life.

It found that 74 per cent of adults believe watching educational programmes as a child helps learning.

The statistic changes significantly when broken down by age with 56 per cent of parents aged 45 and older

preferring their children to watch entertainment rather than educational programmes compared with 29 per cent of those aged 25 to 34.

The majority of parents said the most important programming for their children should contain some education, preferably to encourage numeracy skills, even more so than literacy-based programmes.

[tortohibee]

in all honesty i believe they over emphasise maths at school. unless you want to become an accountant what was the point. yes study basic numeracy skills but when at school you are forced to do maths from primary 1 all the way to 4th year. i hated it and in the age of calculators is it really neccessary. as it shows that an child is better than an adult at maths anyway because they are taught it on a daily basis whereas i dont. never fathomed out these equations at school and being honest what was the point. plenty more worthwhile subjects that are more relevent than maths that are pushed to the side when i was at school

[dangerousdavid]

Why dont you add a poll and see if Hibess are cleverer than the general public?

[Colr]

Originally Posted by dangerousdavid

Why dont you add a poll and see if Hibess are cleverer than the general public?

Won't let me. Maybe an admin can do it.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Colr

The survey found that basic numeracy skills were on the decline, with 96 per cent of those aged 55 and older able to answer a "simple" question, taken from an eight-year-old's maths paper, correctly - compared with 88 per cent of those aged 18 to 25.

The question posed was: What is one eighth of 32?

The answers were: a) 6 b) 4 c) 2 d) 8 e) None of these f) Don't know.

See when you get to 55, I reckon your schooling means feck all because by that stage in your life most of what's in your mind is based on experience whether it's theory or practical. In fact, I think it happens much sooner than that. Is this story just a divisive pile of pish? I agree that it's worrying that an 18 - 25 yr old couldn't answer this but I guarantee they'd be able to answer the question correctly by the time they're feckin' 55.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

See when you get to 55, I reckon your schooling means feck all because by that stage in your life most of what's in your mind is based on experience whether it's theory or practical. In fact, I think it happens much sooner than that. Is this story just a divisive pile of pish? I agree that it's worrying that an 18 - 25 yr old couldn't answer this but I guarantee they'd be able to answer the question correctly by the time they're feckin' 55.

I rather think that I learned how to divide 32 by 8 at school not through experience.

[ldrphibby]

there is surely a problem with our education system when we have a large proportion of kids reaching secondary school unable to read ,write and do basic arithmetic?
the system is failing our children .the use of calculators or indeed computers has it's place in the modern world but these basic skills should not be lost !

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Colr

I rather think that I learned how to divide 32 by 8 at school not through experience.

You missed my point. The point I was making was that testing the results of a group of 55 year olds againts the current crup of young adults means nothing. It doesn't prove that 55 year olds were better taught, how can you prove that they haven't just picked this equation up via repetition throught their adult life? I did say that I do fnd it worrying that 18 - 25 yr olds can't do this equation but I also thing that comparing them & their schooling to a 55 yr olds ability to do the equation is pointless divisive bollocks.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

You missed my point. The point I was making was that testing the results of a group of 55 year olds againts the current crup of young adults means nothing. It doesn't prove that 55 year olds were better taught, how can you prove that they haven't just picked this equation up via repetition throught their adult life? I did say that I do fnd it worrying that 18 - 25 yr olds can't do this equation but I also thing that comparing them & their schooling to a 55 yr olds ability to do the equation is pointless divisive bollocks.

The knowledge should be fresher in those who have just completed their education. There are many things we learned that rust away through lack of use - so that argument could work both ways.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Colr

The knowledge should be fresher in those who have just completed their education. There are many things we learned that rust away through lack of use - so that argument could work both ways.

I suppose. But, even if you do use the argument the other way that also means you can use this test as a true comparison of each group's schooling.

Do you know much about the report? I'm not being a fanny, I'm just inerested. I'd like to know where the folk that took part were from, were they from a notoriously under performing area? Are kids really much more rubbish at school than the previous generations? Maybe the world's changed, maybe there are different priorities that need to addressed/learnt. I know celebrity it worryingly high on the agenda for kids/society, is this reflected in poor school results? i.e. naeb'dy cares about school as all they want is all* (Paris Hilton, David Beckham) or nothing. Should parents just become wiser, keep the feck up with the times and prepare their kids to deal with this pish?


*by 'all' I mean celebrity & money.

[BEEFY71]

I saw this on the News last night, they were interviewing people in the street and asked them the 1/8 of 32 question, some of the answers were so bad, I thought it had to be a wind up!

Although, I suppose they could've just finished appearing on The Weakest Link right enough!

[garethni]

Originally Posted by tortohibee

in all honesty i believe they over emphasise maths at school. unless you want to become an accountant what was the point. yes study basic numeracy skills but when at school you are forced to do maths from primary 1 all the way to 4th year. i hated it and in the age of calculators is it really neccessary. as it shows that an child is better than an adult at maths anyway because they are taught it on a daily basis whereas i dont. never fathomed out these equations at school and being honest what was the point. plenty more worthwhile subjects that are more relevent than maths that are pushed to the side when i was at school

TBH, i found that Maths (later on in Secondary Ed) goes off the boil a bit, for Engineering disciplines Maths is one of the fundamental components, in my particular degree Maths was the largest part in first year and around 50% of the class dropped out because they couldn't cope with it, we were expected to already be able to understand/implement Integration, Differentiation, Complex No's, Matricies etc i for one hadn't even touched on the subjects and i understood many of my colleagues also hadn't. It's not over-emphasised (certainly not in later life), without Mathematical principles computers, phones, tv's wouldn't exist - certainly not in there high-tec form that they do today.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by tortohibee

in all honesty i believe they over emphasise maths at school. unless you want to become an accountant what was the point. yes study basic numeracy skills but when at school you are forced to do maths from primary 1 all the way to 4th year. i hated it and in the age of calculators is it really neccessary. as it shows that an child is better than an adult at maths anyway because they are taught it on a daily basis whereas i dont. never fathomed out these equations at school and being honest what was the point. plenty more worthwhile subjects that are more relevent than maths that are pushed to the side when i was at school

Well I would say that basic arithmetic should be absolutely battered into bairns. And there should be no calculators involved until they've learned it properly. By basic arithmetic what I mean is adding, subtracting, multiplication, division, and working out percentages. They should then have to learn how actual equations work. After that I would have no problem with kids dropping maths, but these are the sort of things which everyone should just know.

It's all fine and well saying "we can all use calculators" but do you really want to be standing in a queue for something knowing that there is 56 items left, 9 people in front of you, and they can buy a maximum of 6 each of the item and having not the faintest idea how to work out whether it is worth waiting or not? A favourite pastime of mine in previous more skint days was working out what was the cheapest way to get bevvied (lager rather than cider). To do this I had to work out price by alcohol. Is it better to buy 12 bottles of 330ml Stella which is 5% alcohol for 8 quid, or 16 bottles of 275ml Becks which is 4.8% alcohol for a tenner? To do that you work out total amount of bevvy (3.6l of Stella, 4.4l of Becks) multiply it by the ABV (.036 is 1% of the Stella, multiply that by 5 (cause it's 5% alcohol) and you have the total amount of pure alcohol which is .180, do the same with the Becks (works out using the same method as 0.2112 of pure alcohol)) and divide them by the price (22.5ml of alcohol per pound if buying Stella, 21.12ml of alcohol per pound if buying Becks). Doing that in a shop would take me about 30 seconds cause all it is is 1 multiplication and 2 divisions. And I would do that in my head as I'd look like a complete weirdo if I whipped a calculator out in Haddows. And then I would buy Vodka because I wanted to get completely off my tits, but at least I had made an informed choice that I would not have been able to do without basic arithmetic

[garethni]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Well I would say that basic arithmetic should be absolutely battered into bairns. And there should be no calculators involved until they've learned it properly. By basic arithmetic what I mean is adding, subtracting, multiplication, division, and working out percentages. They should then have to learn how actual equations work. After that I would have no problem with kids dropping maths, but these are the sort of things which everyone should just know.

Valid point. I'll give an example from the weekend past. I was flying from Belfast Int'l to Edinburgh - popped into one of the Airport shops for a bottle of water and something to read as my flight was delayed, my items came to £5.22 or something similar, i handed the cashier (a young girl 17-20) £10 and as she was ringing it in i was fishing for scrap change and had the right amount to receieve £5 straight, i said to her theres 22p to make the change easier, and whilst the till drawer was still open and she was counting out my change she said sorry but i've already rang everything into the till. Was as if she couldn't work out the difference

[Dub]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Well I would say that basic arithmetic should be absolutely battered into bairns. And there should be no calculators involved until they've learned it properly. By basic arithmetic what I mean is adding, subtracting, multiplication, division, and working out percentages. They should then have to learn how actual equations work. After that I would have no problem with kids dropping maths, but these are the sort of things which everyone should just know.

It's all fine and well saying "we can all use calculators" but do you really want to be standing in a queue for something knowing that there is 56 items left, 9 people in front of you, and they can buy a maximum of 6 each of the item and having not the faintest idea how to work out whether it is worth waiting or not? A favourite pastime of mine in previous more skint days was working out what was the cheapest way to get bevvied (lager rather than cider). To do this I had to work out price by alcohol. Is it better to buy 12 bottles of 330ml Stella which is 5% alcohol for 8 quid, or 16 bottles of 275ml Becks which is 4.8% alcohol for a tenner? To do that you work out total amount of bevvy (3.6l of Stella, 4.4l of Becks) multiply it by the ABV (.036 is 1% of the Stella, multiply that by 5 (cause it's 5% alcohol) and you have the total amount of pure alcohol which is .180, do the same with the Becks (works out using the same method as 0.2112 of pure alcohol)) and divide them by the price (22.5ml of alcohol per pound if buying Stella, 21.12ml of alcohol per pound if buying Becks). Doing that in a shop would take me about 30 seconds cause all it is is 1 multiplication and 2 divisions. And I would do that in my head as I'd look like a complete weirdo if I whipped a calculator out in Haddows. And then I would buy Vodka because I wanted to get completely off my tits, but at least I had made an informed choice that I would not have been able to do without basic arithmetic

So, you reckon that standing there looking into the ceiling [for concentration] and working out the mathematics made you look normal Was there the odd finger count while you silently mouth the formula to yourself whilst you go through it

tbf its the best way to decide what beer to buy that I have ever heard