Love Sleep?

[Colr]

The first hard evidence has emerged that we are unable to catch up on lost sleep if it happens night after night - increasing the risk of obesity, heart disease and depression, while cutting mental dexterity.

While our bodies try to catch up on occasional loss by making us sleep more and/or more deeply the following night, this mechanism breaks down when there is chronic deprivation, say researchers at Northwestern University, Illinois.

They report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows that when rats are partially sleep deprived over consecutive days they no longer attempt to catch up, despite an accumulating sleep deficit. "The ability to compensate for lost sleep is itself lost, which is damaging both physically and mentally," said Prof Fred Turek.

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Since we had our first child I've barely been up past 10pm. I'd much rather be in bed reading a book these days!!!!

I am up before 6 to beat the rush hours, though.

This may be linked to the age thread.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Colr
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The first hard evidence has emerged that we are unable to catch up on lost sleep if it happens night after night - increasing the risk of obesity, heart disease and depression, while cutting mental dexterity.

While our bodies try to catch up on occasional loss by making us sleep more and/or more deeply the following night, this mechanism breaks down when there is chronic deprivation, say researchers at Northwestern University, Illinois.

They report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows that when rats are partially sleep deprived over consecutive days they no longer attempt to catch up, despite an accumulating sleep deficit. "The ability to compensate for lost sleep is itself lost, which is damaging both physically and mentally," said Prof Fred Turek.

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Since we had our first child I've barely been up past 10pm. I'd much rather be in bed reading a book these days!!!!

I am up before 6 to beat the rush hours, though.

This may be linked to the age thread.

it can be pretty devastating. i used to do week about shifts, which really bollocksed me up. the problem is not working nights, it's working a different pattern each week.

i read at the time that if you do it for your whole working life it can reduce life expectancy by 20 years. now, shift allowance was grand an all, but fuck that!

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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it can be pretty devastating. i used to do week about shifts, which really bollocksed me up. the problem is not working nights, it's working a different pattern each week.

i read at the time that if you do it for your whole working life it can reduce life expectancy by 20 years. now, shift allowance was grand an all, but fuck that!

there's a lot in that, we were told by reps from two different unions that constant nightshift knocks about 11 years off.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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it can be pretty devastating. i used to do week about shifts, which really bollocksed me up. the problem is not working nights, it's working a different pattern each week.

i read at the time that if you do it for your whole working life it can reduce life expectancy by 20 years. now, shift allowance was grand an all, but fuck that!

Dinnae get me wrong, I do think it's bad for you, but I have my doubts about that figure. There may well be a corellation between working shifts, and decreased life expectancy, but I would guess there is a far greater one depending on what sort of work you do. The jobs which traditionally demanded shift working tended to be manual industrial type things which tend to see a decreased life expectancy anyway. I would imagine that someone working in a call centre in India will have a significantly higher life expectancy than the average because the workers there tend to be educated and working for a good wage (in Indian terms) for example.

If sleep deprivation was a cause of earlier death, wouldn't people who have a lot of kids spread over a decent time period be particularly affected by this as well?

I could well be wrong, but I have no idea where that sort of thing could be found.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Dinnae get me wrong, I do think it's bad for you, but I have my doubts about that figure. There may well be a corellation between working shifts, and decreased life expectancy, but I would guess there is a far greater one depending on what sort of work you do. The jobs which traditionally demanded shift working tended to be manual industrial type things which tend to see a decreased life expectancy anyway. I would imagine that someone working in a call centre in India will have a significantly higher life expectancy than the average because the workers there tend to be educated and working for a good wage (in Indian terms) for example.

If sleep deprivation was a cause of earlier death, wouldn't people who have a lot of kids spread over a decent time period be particularly affected by this as well?

I could well be wrong, but I have no idea where that sort of thing could be found.

the figure could well be off Al; it was one article in a trade magazine - but i'm sure you can understand why it made an impression on me!

[Brainwrong]

I think I well and truely fecked my ability to catch up on sleep before my kids came along; every weekend for about 10 years.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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the figure could well be off Al; it was one article in a trade magazine - but i'm sure you can understand why it made an impression on me!

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Aye, "it will cost you 20 years" would make an impression on you right enough! If you were still on the tabs at the time and that's supposed to take 20 years of you as well you must have been thinking "fuck, no long left"
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As you say I don't think it is shifts themselves which are a huge problem, but the continual changing of them. My partner had a job for a wee while and her shifts were a fecking mare. They didn't change every week, but every day! Start times ranged from 6 in the morning till 3 in the afternoon and there was no planning whatsoever about the changes so you could finish around 11 and then be back in at 6 the next day. Lasted about 2 months before jacking it.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Dinnae get me wrong, I do think it's bad for you, but I have my doubts about that figure. There may well be a corellation between working shifts, and decreased life expectancy, but I would guess there is a far greater one depending on what sort of work you do. The jobs which traditionally demanded shift working tended to be manual industrial type things which tend to see a decreased life expectancy anyway. I would imagine that someone working in a call centre in India will have a significantly higher life expectancy than the average because the workers there tend to be educated and working for a good wage (in Indian terms) for example.

If sleep deprivation was a cause of earlier death, wouldn't people who have a lot of kids spread over a decent time period be particularly affected by this as well?

I could well be wrong, but I have no idea where that sort of thing could be found.

Ever been to an ex-mining community? The number of guys going about in wheel chairs and on crutches is astonishing. That cuts years of your life, as you suggest, shifts or none.

However, being knackered must increase your chance of accidents (e.g. not paying attention when crossing a road).

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Colr
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However, being knackered must increase your chance of accidents (e.g. not paying attention when crossing a road).

i've been asked to proof read shift reports by guys who've just done a 36 hour stretch and you're reading it fine like tyyyhsis whkkh n suddneeekyl it goersi #ifqw'f#['ew#igfk'adsv;;;;;;;;;kkkk

and these guys are sitting there, knowing there's something wrong, but they can't see what
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[wee 162]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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i've been asked to proof read shift reports by guys who've just done a 36 hour stretch and you're reading it fine like tyyyhsis whkkh n suddneeekyl it goersi #ifqw'f#['ew#igfk'adsv;;;;;;;;;kkkk

and these guys are sitting there, knowing there's something wrong, but they can't see what
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I done a half 5 in the morning till 7 the next night shift and got a couple of hours kip in the middle of it a couple of months ago, and I wouldn't have trusted myself to smoke a fag by the end of that. I was also completely useless because I was fuelling myself on lucozade and coffee. It's not even just the shift itself which is the worst bit, but the fact that your body is completely out of kilter for days after.

Just as a matter of interest how much sleep do people on here get & need? I reckon my ideal is between 6 or 7 hours since if I don't have to get up for something and have no alarm set that's usually about how long I'll sleep for. Saying that I don't fall asleep easily (unless melted in one way or another) so it might be a bit less than that. During the week I get maybe 5 or 6 hours a night.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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I done a half 5 in the morning till 7 the next night shift and got a couple of hours kip in the middle of it a couple of months ago, and I wouldn't have trusted myself to smoke a fag by the end of that. I was also completely useless because I was fuelling myself on lucozade and coffee. It's not even just the shift itself which is the worst bit, but the fact that your body is completely out of kilter for days after.

Just as a matter of interest how much sleep do people on here get & need? I reckon my ideal is between 6 or 7 hours since if I don't have to get up for something and have no alarm set that's usually about how long I'll sleep for. Saying that I don't fall asleep easily (unless melted in one way or another) so it might be a bit less than that. During the week I get maybe 5 or 6 hours a night.

like colr, for the past few years with wee sprogs, i've been permanently tired.

shift work used to crush me; by the end i'd sleep from getting home till it was time to get up for work again, but this is different. sort of like the vague disconnectedness you get with a mild hangover, but permanently.

it's been more than 4 years since i 'woke up naturally' but i think if i wasn't feckin whacked all the time, it'd probably be about 7 hours.

in all seriousness, i think i'm more fatigued than i ought to be. i think your body is built for parenthood in teens or twenties. all us late 30s gits with wee nippers, just cannae hack the pace.

[Murray6]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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I done a half 5 in the morning till 7 the next night shift and got a couple of hours kip in the middle of it a couple of months ago, and I wouldn't have trusted myself to smoke a fag by the end of that. I was also completely useless because I was fuelling myself on lucozade and coffee. It's not even just the shift itself which is the worst bit, but the fact that your body is completely out of kilter for days after.

Just as a matter of interest how much sleep do people on here get & need? I reckon my ideal is between 6 or 7 hours since if I don't have to get up for something and have no alarm set that's usually about how long I'll sleep for. Saying that I don't fall asleep easily (unless melted in one way or another) so it might be a bit less than that. During the week I get maybe 5 or 6 hours a night.

I usually get 8 or 9.
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Plus i usually fall asleep during the day - if i'm bored then it always seems the best thing too do.
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[HenryLB]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Aye, "it will cost you 20 years" would make an impression on you right enough! If you were still on the tabs at the time and that's supposed to take 20 years of you as well you must have been thinking "fuck, no long left"
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As you say I don't think it is shifts themselves which are a huge problem, but the continual changing of them. My partner had a job for a wee while and her shifts were a fecking mare. They didn't change every week, but every day! Start times ranged from 6 in the morning till 3 in the afternoon and there was no planning whatsoever about the changes so you could finish around 11 and then be back in at 6 the next day. Lasted about 2 months before jacking it.

I used to do a job like that. Total nightmare. The other thing that was bad was the week's rota wasn't decided until the Thursday before. You'd get people phoning up - "can you come to my birthday party in three weeks time?" "Dunno, I might be at work."

It covered weekends as well, so I once worked 14 days straight with plenty of leaving at half midnight and getting back in at seven the next day. I don't think I've ever felt so exhausted, and all I had to do was sit in front of a computer and a telly.

[Bill Oddies Beard]

I get by on about three hours a night. it's not that i want to, just that i
really am a terrible sleeper. Been to the doc and was offered Temazepam.
'No ta' says i, so ten years later i'm still shocking. Though it gives me
plenty of opportunity to catch some porn while she's sleeping.
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[Stu]

So many of the comments regarding shift work are familiar to me. I worded shifts in the print trade for around twelve years and I would never do them again. I agree that a large part of the problem was indeed switching between shift patterns and attempting to adapt physically, mentally and socially.

One of the problems for me personally was an inability to get a good quality and quantity of sleep on night shifts. I used to dread that pattern coming around because absolutely nothing worked for me. I'd turn in at 7am and be wide awake by 10.30am as frustrated as hell and exhausted. To rub it in I'd probably been struggling to stay awake whilst at work.

On mornings (5.50am-1.30pm) I'd burn the candle at both ends. I figured I was always going to be knackered anyway so I might as well go out and enjoy myself and take four hours sleep before heading off to work.

I left shift working behind four years ago now and am much healthier, I have better concentration levels and time and inclination to eat better. Although I drink tea coffee it's not the levels I used to just attempting to stay awake and lucid.

I echo Henry's remarks about socialising. It was tricky enough when I worked treble shifts - mornings/nights/afternoons but when my company reverted to 'continental' (that's a laugh) shifts it was just hopeless trying to plan anything.

Apart from the theory about shift's life-shortening properties (on which I totally agree with EGB about - it had a huge affect on my attitude towards shift working) there was also research to show a good correlation between shift working and a higher divorce rate. I can easily believe this. I do recall the days when I came home at 6.30pm after a 5.50am start and I wasn’t really worth trying to talk to for a little while after getting home.

An abiding memory for me was visiting the canteen at 3 or 4 in the morning and seeing that sea of ashen, grey faces sitting, hardly talking, and longing for 6am to come around. Wishing their lives away. I always thought that a great shame for them and for me personally.

For me the people that choose or unfortunately have to work shifts deserve every bit of the premium it attracts. Good luck to them. Not for me - never again.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by brianmac
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I get by on about three hours a night. it's not that i want to, just that i
really am a terrible sleeper. Been to the doc and was offered Temazepam.
'No ta' says i, so ten years later i'm still shocking. Though it gives me
plenty of opportunity to catch some porn while she's sleeping.
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guilty conscience b?
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[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Stu
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So many of the comments regarding shift work are familiar to me. I worded shifts in the print trade for around twelve years and I would never do them again. I agree that a large part of the problem was indeed switching between shift patterns and attempting to adapt physically, mentally and socially.

One of the problems for me personally was an inability to get a good quality and quantity of sleep on night shifts. I used to dread that pattern coming around because absolutely nothing worked for me. I'd turn in at 7am and be wide awake by 10.30am as frustrated as hell and exhausted. To rub it in I'd probably been struggling to stay awake whilst at work.

On mornings (5.50am-1.30pm) I'd burn the candle at both ends. I figured I was always going to be knackered anyway so I might as well go out and enjoy myself and take four hours sleep before heading off to work.

I left shift working behind four years ago now and am much healthier, I have better concentration levels and time and inclination to eat better. Although I drink tea coffee it's not the levels I used to just attempting to stay awake and lucid.

I echo Henry's remarks about socialising. It was tricky enough when I worked treble shifts - mornings/nights/afternoons but when my company reverted to 'continental' (that's a laugh) shifts it was just hopeless trying to plan anything.

Apart from the theory about shift's life-shortening properties (on which I totally agree with EGB about - it had a huge affect on my attitude towards shift working) there was also research to show a good correlation between shift working and a higher divorce rate. I can easily believe this. I do recall the days when I came home at 6.30pm after a 5.50am start and I wasn’t really worth trying to talk to for a little while after getting home.

An abiding memory for me was visiting the canteen at 3 or 4 in the morning and seeing that sea of ashen, grey faces sitting, hardly talking, and longing for 6am to come around. Wishing their lives away. I always thought that a great shame for them and for me personally.

For me the people that choose or unfortunately have to work shifts deserve every bit of the premium it attracts. Good luck to them. Not for me - never again.

drinking is of course yet another demon. when you're young and single and out of synch with the rest of the world, the obvious option is too go drinking with your shift mates. daytime drinking presents hazards that don't go with normal drinking either. the rest of the world is going on as normal, so not only is their ample opportuinty for making an erse of yourself, but you can actually immediately act on the pish that comes up in drunken chat, without having to wait till the next day when you'll have sobered up.

'"let's get tattoos" springs to mind
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[Bill Oddies Beard]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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guilty conscience b?
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Lil ol' me?
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Nah, it's more to do with dayshift Monday - Friday then getting stuck on
a 12 hour nightshift down Lockerbie on a Sunday morning at 3.am. With no travelling
time they turned into sixteen hour shifts, getting home at 5pm after leaving at 1am.
Done that for 3 years
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Now with a company where we get travelling time but it's still facked up weekend shifts.
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[Stu]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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drinking is of course yet another demon. when you're young and si