Afghanistan: unwinnable

[HailHail]

In the long term anyway. Thoughts?

In the next 5-15 years there will be a lot of disillusioned angry young afghan men who have lost their dads, uncles and older brothers fighting the occupiers, the next generation of resistance has already been created.

Add this to the fact that this isn't the first time someone's invaded it to oust a troublemaking regime and install a friendly puppet government, and every time the Afghans bide their time before reclaiming their land.


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both older british wars there are chilling reminders that beating the afghans in combat and supporting a western puppet regime there never works. thoughts?

[Smurf]

Most Afghans voted in free elections where available. The Taliban are not wanted by the Afghans and their return would IMO put the whole area at risk.

IMO it is a winnable war and will and is being won.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Smurf
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Most Afghans voted in free elections where available. The Taliban are not wanted by the Afghans and their return would IMO put the whole area at risk.

IMO it is a winnable war and will and is being won.

Free elections set up by said western sponsored puppet regime though, not everyone likes our own kind of democracy shoved down their throats. Not that i'm a taliban man either sir.

There will be, at the very least, 20,000 angry young western hating men who's relatives have been killed by western bullets/bombs or afghan troops from said puppet regime., it will take time but I think it will all start up again, big time, even if the 'coalition' defeat the Afghans at the moment. They'll be back. And they'll have a common enemy.Our poor soldiers.

the parallels with the past are very interesting, new weapons, new reason for going there to install new regime, but the same old story. Except nowadays the Afghans are a bit more clued up than to do daft things like face western troops in big battles to be slaughtered by superior firepower.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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Free elections set up by said western sponsored puppet regime though, not everyone likes our own kind of democracy shoved down their throats. Not that i'm a taliban man either sir.

There will be, at the very least, 20,000 angry young western hating men who's relatives have been killed by western bullets/bombs or afghan troops from said puppet regime., it will take time but I think it will all start up again, big time, even if the 'coalition' defeat the Afghans at the moment. They'll be back. And they'll have a common enemy.Our poor soldiers.

the parallels with the past are very interesting, new weapons, new reason for going there to install new regime, but the same old story. Except nowadays the Afghans are a bit more clued up than to do daft things like face western troops in big battles to be slaughtered by superior firepower.

Democracy not too good for them. They used to say the same thing in apartheid South Africa - cultural differences, blah, blah.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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Free elections set up by said western sponsored puppet regime though, not everyone likes our own kind of democracy shoved down their throats.

If that was the case the turnout against a backdrop of intimidation wouldn't have been so high.

The Taliban was a regime that hung women from goalposts of football pitch for the crime of being accused of looking at another man.

We in the west are far from perfect but why is it the left wants to always paint us as an evil lot?

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Smurf
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If that was the case the turnout against a backdrop of intimidation wouldn't have been so high.

The Taliban was a regime that hung women from goalposts of football pitch for the crime of being accused of looking at another man.

We in the west are far from perfect but why is it the left wants to always paint us as an evil lot?

I think it's 'cos no one likes having anything thrust on them by invaders, don't get me wrong please Smurf, the Taliban were evil and i'm not belittling our army either. But as soon as the western troops go, the Taliban, or perhaps a clued up more moderate sounding version, will return. We and the current afghan government could control the place only with permanent occupation by western troops. The longer we occupy, the more dissafected folk who wouldn't otherwise support the Taliban would flock to the taliban's banner.

It's certainly going to be an interesting ten years thats for sure.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Colr
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Democracy not too good for them. They used to say the same thing in apartheid South Africa - cultural differences, blah, blah.

True col, but it's not the fact it's democracy, its the fact it was imposed on them that will swell the taliban ranks if/when western troops abandon the current puppet regime to their fate and pull out.Like has always happened.

It must be on a par with vietnam to our soldiers, go out, find enemy, fight them, kill a few, they run away to fight another day, troops end up fighting the same guys for the same ppiece of terrain as the day before.

[egb_hibs]

the taliban were in large part a foreign occupying force, with some local puppets, by your terms hh. what;s the difference?

[Colr]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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True col, but it's not the fact it's democracy, its the fact it was imposed on them that will swell the taliban ranks if/when western troops abandon the current puppet regime to their fate and pull out.Like has always happened.

It must be on a par with vietnam to our soldiers, go out, find enemy, fight them, kill a few, they run away to fight another day, troops end up fighting the same guys for the same ppiece of terrain as the day before.

Compared to a religious autocracy being imposed on them?

[tortohibee]

to win this war we really need to increase the number of troops to be able to stay in the areas of battle. the docu fighting the taliban gave a great insight to fighting them for 3-4 days capturing the village then leaving the village for them to come back,
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most of the taliban come from pakistan so better border patrols are a must. the afghan army is crap and the minute we leave then the taliban will gain control of much of the country. did anyone see the itn footage 2 days ago. war porn at its best

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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the taliban were in large part a foreign occupying force, with some local puppets, by your terms hh. what;s the difference?

Religion really sir and the taliban aren't hated westerners.

I suppose I was trying to make the point that britain/coalition can't win unless there is a permanent (at least 20 years) and very strong occupation. how long would people back here stand for that?

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Colr
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Compared to a religious autocracy being imposed on them?

torto has actually summed up what i was trying to say better Col.

decades of war in Afghanistan wouldn't be tolerated here i'll wager, and that's the only way to secure the place, long term presence and occupation. No country likes that.