Out of control and a danger to women - John Cronin

[Purple & Green]

Cracking write up in todays scotsman:

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=579202003

PSYCHIATRIC reports detailing a disturbed childhood and the development of a severe and untreatable personality disorder underline the reasons why John Cronin is considered so dangerous that police and ministers want him to be the first offender in Britain tracked round the clock by satellite.

The reports, prepared by some of the country’s leading consultant psychiatrists, paint a portrait of someone who has been out of control since the age of three, who was expelled from school at five, and who, as a teenager, disrupted lessons by defecating and urinating on classroom floors.

The reports also reveal that Cronin had a love-hate relationship with his maternal grandfather, whom he accused of sexually abusing him between the ages of five and 12, but whom he also described as a confidant.

He also confessed to John Baird, a former senior psychiatrist at the State Hospital at Carstairs,

that when he subjected Judy X, a Tory Party worker, to a sickening sexual assault in her own home in May 1992, in his mind’s eye she hadn’t even been there. He claimed he was imagining an assault on the grandfather he claimed had abused him.

One social worker who dealt with Cronin in 1988, following his first sexual assault on a young girl, learnt from the Royal Ulster Constabulary that he had taken his Irish father’s army records and altered them with the intention of using them to join the IRA. His family learned later that he had tried to join another republican terrorist group in Ireland.

The social worker found Cronin to be flippant and boastful, with a strong interest in politics. He claimed to be active in the Conservative Party and expressed admiration for Nazism and dictatorship, which he believed was "true leadership".

Cronin was born on 18 July, 1971, in Edinburgh. His father, Michael, from Limerick, had left Ireland for the United States aged 17, and joined the army.

While serving there, he met Cronin’s mother, Jeanette, who had been married before, and married her. In 1970, they returned to her home town, Tranent, East Lothian, but the next few years were punctuated by frequent moves between Tranent, Limerick and the US.

Eventually, around 1980, the Cronins, who had a daughter, Vanessa, in 1978, moved into the home of Mrs Cronin’s father in Tranent following her mother’s death. But by this time, they were fully aware that their son was slipping away from their control.

At the age of three, Cronin’s behaviour worried them sufficiently to have him seen by a child psychologist. From that time, said one professional who has worked with him, "it was clear he was not one of us". At home, Cronin had been smashing light bulbs and his parents, especially his mother, were finding him difficult to control.

Despite the problems, Cronin’s parents

enrolled him at fee-paying Heriot’s primary school, but he was expelled after a few weeks because of his disruptive behaviour. He turned over desks, urinated on the floor and attacked a teacher.

Aged five, he was referred to the child and family psychiatry service of the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh. He was considered to be explosive and aggressive.

Cronin told psychiatrists his school years were characterised by repeated difficulties. The one exception was between the ages of six and eight, when he was educated at St Margaret’s convent, Edinburgh. He appeared to have a deep respect for the nuns.

Cronin moved through a series of schools before completing his education at Woodlands residential school, in Newton Stewart, where he obtained four O Grades. But his progress was far from smooth. His psychiatric notes relate to frequent instances of extreme disruptive behaviour at school, including thefts and assaults. He also openly urinated and defecated on classroom floors in his early teens.

On one occasion, soon after his 16th birthday, he had an overnight stay at the Royal Edinburgh, a psychiatric hospital. He became agitated in the night and threw faeces over a nurse. In a hostel for the homeless earlier the same day, he had threatened arson.

Robert Wrate, a consultant psychiatrist then based at the Royal Edinburgh, assessed Cronin in April 1988, when he was first charged with indecent assault. Cronin served a three-month sentence for exposing himself and sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl in Edinburgh. He had known her from Woodlands School.

Dr Wrate found that Cronin had marked discrepancies in his intellectual abilities. His verbal reasoning was at the university range of ability, while his ability to perform tasks requiring visual-spatial skills were on the border of sub-normal.

In an interview with the psychiatrist, Cronin revealed he had felt suicidal while on remand at the Young Offenders Institution at Glenochil for the sexual assault.

Dr Wrate

concluded: "It is clear he has a severe disorder of his personality, which has grossly interfered with his social adjustment and might be expected to do so for some considerable time."

Dr Baird produced a detailed report on Cronin in August 1992, before he was sentenced for the assault on Judy X. His report was instrumental in Lord McCluskey’s decision to sentence Cronin to life, although this was overturned by the Court of Appeal in December 1992 and a six-year term imposed instead.

But Cronin was soon released - only to offend again, being found guilty at Haddington Sheriff Court in 1997 of making nuisance calls to women in the Tory Party including Patricia Burton, a former East Lothian councillor. By the time Dr Baird met him, Cronin had served a number of short prison terms in Ireland for various crimes of dishonesty.

He had developed the knack of passing himself off as a priest to obtain food and lodgings from genuine priests, and often stole from them when given hospitality.

He was sufficiently competent to co-celebrate Mass with the priests who extended their hospitality.

In Edinburgh, he would pose as a visiting Irish priest for the same reason, to exploit their hospitality, on one occasion fooling the late Monsignor Grady at St Mary’s Cathedral and stealing from the purse of a cleaner in the church house.

He entered Judy X’s home posing as a priest who wished to donate money he had inherited to the Tory Party.

Dr Baird

delved into Cronin’s relationships with his parents. Although he acknowledged that his father disapproved of his history of offences of dishonesty and he suggested they did not have a good relationship, Cronin described his father as "a parent and a hero", and said he favoured him over his mother.

Cronin told Dr Baird about his reliance on prostitutes for sex and about his problems with alcohol. Dr Baird, noting that Cronin was not depressed or despondent, said: "He appeared to become distressed only when discussing the sexual attack or his past sexual abuse."

Cronin told Dr Baird he believed in reincarnation and that he had been a soldier at the Charge of the Light Brigade in a past life and Reinhardt Heydrich, a Nazi, in another. He believed himself to be similarly associated with historical characters.

However, Dr Baird concluded that he could find no evidence of mental disorder of the type that would justify Cronin’s compulsory detention in Carstairs under the Mental Health Act. But in his closing comments, Dr Baird

said: "He has never, while in the community, lived in a calm, uneventful manner. The likelihood is that for a considerable time to come, he will, when in the community, behave again as he has done in the past.

"Regarding the question of dangerousness, his life-long behaviour pattern has been one of senseless, dishonest, unreliable and unacceptable behaviour. I have not been able to find any evidence of other behaviour similar to that which he displayed on 21 May, 1992 [the attack on Judy X], when he committed a very serious and sustained sexual assault, nor have I been able to find any reason for his behaviour on that day."

While psychiatrists have tended to describe Cronin as untreatable, leading psychologists disagree.

One said: "Personality disorders can cover a range of ills and affect different people in different ways. If a psychiatrist says such a condition is untreatable, it means there is no medication to help, but I don’t accept that any condition is entirely untreatable.

"There is work that could be done with John Cronin. The stumbling block is that he needs to want to be helped."

[LutherBlisset]

Is Cronin not a Hibby?

[Purple & Green]

Is Cronin not a Hibby?

You at the ham? He sounds like a stereotypical Celtic fan to me.

[oo2beahibby]

While all of this is very interesting - even arguably in the public interest - it worries me that so much medical information about an individual seems to be in the public domain.

I know none of us are ever likely to commit heinious crimes such as Cronin, but we're all perfectly capable of becoimbg mentally ill. Personally, I'd hate any of my family or I to be subjected to this level of information being published anywhere other than my medical records.

[Purple & Green]

That thought struck me too:- not least because Cronin will probably read what is being written, and how will he react to that?

I think the clues are in the article: this level of disclosure is because of the level of fear of what crimes he *will* commit, but secondly and more crucially he is refusing to seek help.

"There is work that could be done with John Cronin. The stumbling block is that he needs to want to be helped."

[fishybeaver]

Cant help but feel sorry for the guys parents, who by all account are decent people, his release will end in tears either for an other victim, Himself or his parents.

Sad sad situation, surely being placed in Hospital (Cairstair's etc) would be the best option and in the publics best interest, bare in mind that he would have more rights in hospital than in prison.

[Greenman]

Originally posted by "Bobby S"

Cracking write up in todays scotsman:

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=579202003

PSYCHIATRIC reports detailing a disturbed childhood and the development of a severe and untreatable personality disorder underline the reasons why John Cronin is considered so dangerous that police and ministers want him to be the first offender in Britain tracked round the clock by satellite.

The reports, prepared by some of the country’s leading consultant psychiatrists, paint a portrait of someone who has been out of control since the age of three, who was expelled from school at five, and who, as a teenager, disrupted lessons by defecating and urinating on classroom floors.

The reports also reveal that Cronin had a love-hate relationship with his maternal grandfather, whom he accused of sexually abusing him between the ages of five and 12, but whom he also described as a confidant.

He also confessed to John Baird, a former senior psychiatrist at the State Hospital at Carstairs,

that when he subjected Judy X, a Tory Party worker, to a sickening sexual assault in her own home in May 1992, in his mind’s eye she hadn’t even been there. He claimed he was imagining an assault on the grandfather he claimed had abused him.

One social worker who dealt with Cronin in 1988, following his first sexual assault on a young girl, learnt from the Royal Ulster Constabulary that he had taken his Irish father’s army records and altered them with the intention of using them to join the IRA. His family learned later that he had tried to join another republican terrorist group in Ireland.

The social worker found Cronin to be flippant and boastful, with a strong interest in politics. He claimed to be active in the Conservative Party and expressed admiration for Nazism and dictatorship, which he believed was "true leadership".

Cronin was born on 18 July, 1971, in Edinburgh. His father, Michael, from Limerick, had left Ireland for the United States aged 17, and joined the army.

While serving there, he met Cronin’s mother, Jeanette, who had been married before, and married her. In 1970, they returned to her home town, Tranent, East Lothian, but the next few years were punctuated by frequent moves between Tranent, Limerick and the US.

Eventually, around 1980, the Cronins, who had a daughter, Vanessa, in 1978, moved into the home of Mrs Cronin’s father in Tranent following her mother’s death. But by this time, they were fully aware that their son was slipping away from their control.

At the age of three, Cronin’s behaviour worried them sufficiently to have him seen by a child psychologist. From that time, said one professional who has worked with him, "it was clear he was not one of us". At home, Cronin had been smashing light bulbs and his parents, especially his mother, were finding him difficult to control.

Despite the problems, Cronin’s parents

enrolled him at fee-paying Heriot’s primary school, but he was expelled after a few weeks because of his disruptive behaviour. He turned over desks, urinated on the floor and attacked a teacher.

Aged five, he was referred to the child and family psychiatry service of the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh. He was considered to be explosive and aggressive.

Cronin told psychiatrists his school years were characterised by repeated difficulties. The one exception was between the ages of six and eight, when he was educated at St Margaret’s convent, Edinburgh. He appeared to have a deep respect for the nuns.

Cronin moved through a series of schools before completing his education at Woodlands residential school, in Newton Stewart, where he obtained four O Grades. But his progress was far from smooth. His psychiatric notes relate to frequent instances of extreme disruptive behaviour at school, including thefts and assaults. He also openly urinated and defecated on classroom floors in his early teens.

On one occasion, soon after his 16th birthday, he had an overnight stay at the Royal Edinburgh, a psychiatric hospital. He became agitated in the night and threw faeces over a nurse. In a hostel for the homeless earlier the same day, he had threatened arson.

Robert Wrate, a consultant psychiatrist then based at the Royal Edinburgh, assessed Cronin in April 1988, when he was first charged with indecent assault. Cronin served a three-month sentence for exposing himself and sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl in Edinburgh. He had known her from Woodlands School.

Dr Wrate found that Cronin had marked discrepancies in his intellectual abilities. His verbal reasoning was at the university range of ability, while his ability to perform tasks requiring visual-spatial skills were on the border of sub-normal.

In an interview with the psychiatrist, Cronin revealed he had felt suicidal while on remand at the Young Offenders Institution at Glenochil for the sexual assault.

Dr Wrate

concluded: "It is clear he has a severe disorder of his personality, which has grossly interfered with his social adjustment and might be expected to do so for some considerable time."

Dr Baird produced a detailed report on Cronin in August 1992, before he was sentenced for the assault on Judy X. His report was instrumental in Lord McCluskey’s decision to sentence Cronin to life, although this was overturned by the Court of Appeal in December 1992 and a six-year term imposed instead.

But Cronin was soon released - only to offend again, being found guilty at Haddington Sheriff Court in 1997 of making nuisance calls to women in the Tory Party including Patricia Burton, a former East Lothian councillor. By the time Dr Baird met him, Cronin had served a number of short prison terms in Ireland for various crimes of dishonesty.

He had developed the knack of passing himself off as a priest to obtain food and lodgings from genuine priests, and often stole from them when given hospitality.

He was sufficiently competent to co-celebrate Mass with the priests who extended their hospitality.

In Edinburgh, he would pose as a visiting Irish priest for the same reason, to exploit their hospitality, on one occasion fooling the late Monsignor Grady at St Mary’s Cathedral and stealing from the purse of a cleaner in the church house.

He entered Judy X’s home posing as a priest who wished to donate money he had inherited to the Tory Party.

Dr Baird

delved into Cronin’s relationships with his parents. Although he acknowledged that his father disapproved of his history of offences of dishonesty and he suggested they did not have a good relationship, Cronin described his father as "a parent and a hero", and said he favoured him over his mother.

Cronin told Dr Baird about his reliance on prostitutes for sex and about his problems with alcohol. Dr Baird, noting that Cronin was not depressed or despondent, said: "He appeared to become distressed only when discussing the sexual attack or his past sexual abuse."

Cronin told Dr Baird he believed in reincarnation and that he had been a soldier at the Charge of the Light Brigade in a past life and Reinhardt Heydrich, a Nazi, in another. He believed himself to be similarly associated with historical characters.

However, Dr Baird concluded that he could find no evidence of mental disorder of the type that would justify Cronin’s compulsory detention in Carstairs under the Mental Health Act. But in his closing comments, Dr Baird

said: "He has never, while in the community, lived in a calm, uneventful manner. The likelihood is that for a considerable time to come, he will, when in the community, behave again as he has done in the past.

"Regarding the question of dangerousness, his life-long behaviour pattern has been one of senseless, dishonest, unreliable and unacceptable behaviour. I have not been able to find any evidence of other behaviour similar to that which he displayed on 21 May, 1992 [the attack on Judy X], when he committed a very serious and sustained sexual assault, nor have I been able to find any reason for his behaviour on that day."

While psychiatrists have tended to describe Cronin as untreatable, leading psychologists disagree.

One said: "Personality disorders can cover a range of ills and affect different people in different ways. If a psychiatrist says such a condition is untreatable, it means there is no medication to help, but I don’t accept that any condition is entirely untreatable.

"There is work that could be done with John Cronin. The stumbling block is that he needs to want to be helped."

Having read this report I'd say Cronin was no different from your common and run of the mill Jam-bo !!!

A Bag of Shoite !!!!!!

Oh Ma Sides !!!!!!!!!

[BurbankHibee]

Originally posted by "fishybeaver"

Sad sad situation, surely being placed in Hospital (Cairstair's etc) would be the best option and in the publics best interest, bare in mind that he would have more rights in hospital than in prison.

The guy would seem to be "barking mad" and I certainly wouldn't be able to sleep easily if he was living next door to me.
If he is as bad as this report makes out, it's only a matter of time, a short time, that he will do something else. He can't help himself so I think in his best interests and that of the public, a secure psychiatric facility would be the best.

[Greenman]

[quote]Originally posted by "BurbankHibee"

Originally Posted by fishybeaver

He can't help himself so I think in his best interests and that of the public, a secure psychiatric facility would be the best.

Agree somewhere like the Whitehouse...

[Bartok]

Someone should just kill the fecker some quiet night, he forfeited the right to life a long time ago, IMHO

[oo2beahibby]

Originally posted by "Bartok"

Someone should just kill the fecker some quiet night, he forfeited the right to life a long time ago, IMHO

Bit strong, C. He seems to be fairly severely mentally disturbed. In instances like this, I think the state has a duty to protect the law abiding public. There is legislation under both the Mental Health Act and the Criminal Procedures Act to detain someone in a psychiatric hospital (could be Carstairs, could be a secure unit elsewhere) if they are either a danger to the public or themselves.

In this instance, I think they (the State) are failing us by not invoking this legislature.

[Colr]

If he's mentally ill and a danger to himself and others why is he not detained under a Mental Health Act section?

[BurbankHibee]

He is a prime candidate for the 3 strikes law. If he can't be treated then he has to stay in the big house or put him to sleep. He is obviously a danger.

[Daddyo]

Originally Posted by LutherBlisset

Is Cronin not a Hibby?

I was drinking with him a couple of months ago in Sunderland.That is the reason for me coming onto this board.He seemed a remarkably gentle lad.How wrong I was!Oh,and edit:He told me he was a priest,and a CELTIC supporter.
P.s.The lads been exposed in the paper down here.I presume hes done a runner elsewhere by now.

[ME YA HA]

guy i work beside used to baby sit for him when he's was a bairn!
tranent's not a very big place he say's his ma's been spat on doing her shopping and his old man's had a dooing or two for just being his old man fecking shame
about time we brought back mob rule and lynchings me thinks

[wehateharry]

Originally Posted by oo2beahibby

While all of this is very interesting - even arguably in the public interest - it worries me that so much medical information about an individual seems to be in the public domain.

I know none of us are ever likely to commit heinious crimes such as Cronin, but we're all perfectly capable of becoimbg mentally ill. Personally, I'd hate any of my family or I to be subjected to this level of information being published anywhere other than my medical records.

That was the first thing that struck me, How can a doctor come out with stuff like this to a reporter?

That aside I reckon Cronin is one evil bastard and really should be put to death.

[Daddyo]

Anyone off here met him?I was shocked knowing ive been in the company of such a vicious bastard.

[SoulBamRab]

Originally Posted by Daddyo

I was drinking with him a couple of months ago in Sunderland.That is the reason for me coming onto this board.He seemed a remarkably gentle lad.How wrong I was!Oh,and edit:He told me he was a priest,and a CELTIC supporter.
P.s.The lads been exposed in the paper down here.I presume hes done a runner elsewhere by now.

He's actually free? FFS thats scary i thought he was in Carstairs, was going to make a joke about belters there but i'm no going to bother cos this guys seriously ill he should be detained at least for the protection of woman whether in carstairs or wherever else. Satellit trackings no going to stop him either. Mad!

[Daddyo]

Originally Posted by bionicrab

He's actually free? FFS thats scary i thought he was in Carstairs, was going to make a joke about belters there but i'm no going to bother cos this guys seriously ill he should be detained at least for the protection of woman whether in carstairs or wherever else. Satellit trackings no going to stop him either. Mad!

Oh yes,he's free alright.He was a regular in many city centre pubs in Sunderland just a couple of months ago.Ill add a link in a minute of his latest(harmless) escapade.
http://www.sunderlandtoday.co.uk/Vie...icleID=1853183

[SoulBamRab]

Originally Posted by Daddyo

Oh yes,he's free alright.He was a regular in many city centre pubs in Sunderland just a couple of months ago.Ill add a link in a minute of his latest(harmless) escapade.
http://www.sunderlandtoday.co.uk/Vie...icleID=1853183

That article says he got a life sentence and then got other sentences later on should he not have had to go back and do the rest of the life sentence?