Palestinian Flag and Pope T-Shirt?

[egb_hibs]

what a

These soapies must have a hard job keeping all their various but conflicting catholic, islamic, anti-clerical st pauli anarchist and socialism generally, loyalties square in their heads. what a bunch of choobs.

[OwenWright]

Football stadiums for football only, erse. I was wondering if anyone could confirm something i read that surprised me. The truth that Palestine is no more real than Never Never Land, the first time Palestine was used was in 70AD when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the temple and declared the land of Israel will be no more. They promised from then on the land of Israel would be known as Palestine - a name derived from the Phillistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews earlier. Palestine has never existed before or since as an autonomous entity. There is no launguage known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestine culture. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese or Iraqis.There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. It was ruled alterrnatively by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Turks and, briefly the British after WW1.

Feekin complicated wee part of the world, in the past and now.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by OwenWright

Football stadiums for football only, erse. I was wondering if anyone could confirm something i read that surprised me. The truth that Palestine is no more real than Never Never Land, the first time Palestine was used was in 70AD when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the temple and declared the land of Israel will be no more. They promised from then on the land of Israel would be known as Palestine - a name derived from the Phillistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews earlier. Palestine has never existed before or since as an autonomous entity. There is no launguage known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestine culture. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese or Iraqis.There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. It was ruled alterrnatively by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Turks and, briefly the British after WW1.

Feekin complicated wee part of the world, in the past and now.

No expert but AFAIK some of that has a kernel of truth and some is bollocks.

To the best of my knowledge:

- Palestinians are arabs, indistinguishable from etc etc - not true, palestinians are in fact semites, as are the jews from that part of the world.

- there has never been a land known as palestine governed by palestinians - probably true; the nation state is a western invention and was implemented elsewhere by european colonialists following the collapse of empires. the idea of a territorial nation state is not really a natural fit with islam.

that is not the same as saying the people who are known as palestinians didn't live in the part of the world they today call palestine.

- Palestine is indeed a roman applied name - can't comment on it's etymology

[Colr]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

what a

These soapies must have a hard job keeping all their various but conflicting catholic, islamic, anti-clerical st pauli anarchist and socialism generally, loyalties square in their heads. what a bunch of choobs.

You what?

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

No expert but AFAIK some of that has a kernel of truth and some is bollocks.

To the best of my knowledge:

- Palestinians are arabs, indistinguishable from etc etc - not true, palestinians are in fact semites, as are the jews from that part of the world.

- there has never been a land known as palestine governed by palestinians - probably true; the nation state is a western invention and was implemented elsewhere by european colonialists following the collapse of empires. the idea of a territorial nation state is not really a natural fit with islam.

that is not the same as saying the people who are known as palestinians didn't live in the part of the world they today call palestine.

- Palestine is indeed a roman applied name - can't comment on it's etymology

On the Islam issue of Jerusalem, Joseph Farah, an Arab journalist states there are no Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem. It is not true that the A-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock represent Islams third most holy site. In fact the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. There is no historical evidence to suggest Muhammad ever visited Jerusalem. Muslims cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled The Night Journey it relates that in a dream or vision Muhammed was carried by night to heaven from the sacred temple to temple that is most remote, this is where in the seventh century, some Muslims identify the two temples mentioned as being Mecca and Jerusalem. And thats as close as Islams connection with Jerusalem gets, Meanwhile the Jews can trace their roots back to the days of Abraham. True or not i don't know but none the less very interesting.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Colr

You what?

the many incompatible socio-political totems of the holier-than-though dodgers.

[Bartok]

Colr - some loony tune invaded the pitch last night with said articles on display, apparently, thus causing a stooshie among both sets of fans... if there were any Israelis there that is. Probably a soapy, it is suggested?

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

Originally Posted by Colr

You what?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/6114948.stm

He was interviewed on STV, today, after his court appearance.

[hibadelic]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

what a

These soapies must have a hard job keeping all their various but conflicting catholic, islamic, anti-clerical st pauli anarchist and socialism generally, loyalties square in their heads. what a bunch of choobs.

I don't think they think about it too much.

[TattooedHibee]

Who was he parading the palestine flag at? The Israelis or the huns?









































or both? Celtic fud.

[PILTONSTANY]

Had to laugh at the irony of the commentator after the guy got huckled,saying "Whatever your beliefs are,this is not the place to be showing them" try telling that to the 40,000 huns singing the various "songs" last night.

[Johnny Vegas]

couldn't have been too many sean gallagher's at ibrox last night

[egb_hibs]

there was a post on the huddleboard tother day which caused a minor civil war:

apparently some sellick fan got pumped by sankt pauli ultras for brandishing a tricolour in their end, because such self-appointed guardians of enlightenment prohibit any display of national flags in their end in case they 'offend someone'.

cue much cognitive dissonance as the soapies tried to square a circle upon which one of their habitual love-ins depends.

to be fair, i had to give props to the thread instigator, who was quite right in essence imho with his "we're first and foremost celtic so fuck em " line which garnered him pelters. another thing that got him a pussy-whippin was equating said sankt pauli mob to fascists - cue the kind of blinded hysteria that excuses soviet atrocities - "they can't be, they're the opposite" blah blah blah

As if there isn't a better nutshell definition of fascism than the violent suppression of dissenting opinion, whatever bullshit rationale you use to justify it.

the che wing of the sellick support are even bigger fannies than the kid on provos. the anti-cafflick ones are especially funny; a common response over there is that they seem all over the internet, but one has yet to make his opinions clear at celtic park

and by the by, with soapise, in my experience, the bigger their political mouth the bigger the shiters in my experience. but that involves orange walks, ICF, and other things best left in the midst of time.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by OwenWright

Football stadiums for football only

Bollocks imo. Most of the time, aye. But let's say you are a black South African football fan who supports a black South African football team during apartheid. Then let's say that they draw a popular "white" team in a cup (this is hypothetical obviously). Do you honestly think that the people supporting the first club should just shut up about the oppression they are living under, and "support the team"? I don't. Football is one of the very few places where if a crowd says something which is distasteful to others the authorities can do nothing about it.

[1875]

Could I add a fair old few Palistinians are Catholics. It was surreal none the less. Especially when you watch him after court today and his is simply a 21 year old ned!

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

Colr - some loony tune invaded the pitch last night with said articles on display, apparently, thus causing a stooshie among both sets of fans... if there were any Israelis there that is. Probably a soapy, it is suggested?

Did he have a death wish?

[TariqE]

Originally Posted by Daddy'O'Hibee

On the Islam issue of Jerusalem, Joseph Farah, an Arab journalist states there are no Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem. It is not true that the A-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock represent Islams third most holy site. In fact the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. There is no historical evidence to suggest Muhammad ever visited Jerusalem. Muslims cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled The Night Journey it relates that in a dream or vision Muhammed was carried by night to heaven from the sacred temple to temple that is most remote, this is where in the seventh century, some Muslims identify the two temples mentioned as being Mecca and Jerusalem. And thats as close as Islams connection with Jerusalem gets, Meanwhile the Jews can trace their roots back to the days of Abraham. True or not i don't know but none the less very interesting.

But the old testament is as valid in Islam as it is in Christianity and Judaism- indeed you mention Abraham and he is a prophet who ranks highly in the teachings of 3 monotheistic religions. The festival of Eid Al-Adha (the feast of the lamb) is in recognition of Abraham's devotion to God to the extent that he was willing to sacrifice his son Ishmael (Isaac).

You're probably right about Mohammed never going to or being anywhere near Jerusalem, but the same is true of judaism's most important prophet.

Whatever the origins, it is now very very important to jews and muslims and neither claim can be dismissed.

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

[quote=TariqE;529770]But the old testament is as valid in Islam as it is in Christianity and Judaism- indeed you mention Abraham and he is a prophet who ranks highly in the teachings of 3 monotheistic religions. The festival of Eid Al-Adha (the feast of the lamb) is in recognition of Abraham's devotion to God to the extent that he was willing to sacrifice his son Ishmael (Isaac).

You're probably right about Mohammed never going to or being anywhere near Jerusalem, but the same is true of judaism's most important prophet.

Whatever the origins, it is now very very important to jews and muslims and neither claim can be dismissed.[/quote]




Thank you Tariq, very informative post, i was reading bits and pieces about the Middle East situation, and wasn't to sure about the authenticity of the quotes from Joseph Farah, i done a wilkipedia on him and found he was an Arab American of Christian faith.
Trying to understand the Holy Land and the peoples living there, through dialogue and debate is paramount to solving some of the problems there, IMO, and agree with your last highlighted sentence totally.

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Bollocks imo. Most of the time, aye. But let's say you are a black South African football fan who supports a black South African football team during apartheid. Then let's say that they draw a popular "white" team in a cup (this is hypothetical obviously). Do you honestly think that the people supporting the first club should just shut up about the oppression they are living under, and "support the team"? I don't. Football is one of the very few places where if a crowd says something which is distasteful to others the authorities can do nothing about it.

Football stadiums and football teams have been used by others in the past for political propaganda purposes, as they house a tremendous amount of people and media attention, i accept your point about apartheid, as quoted and do understand the frustrations of individuals, but feel spectators running onto pitches, as was done by the chap the other night, served no purpose. Off to game now Al, c'mon the Hibs 2-1.

[TariqE]

I think that it does serve a purpose (but would cease to if it became too common) as we are having a discussion about it now (a similar thread has also developed over on .net and it cannot just be Hibbys that are talking about this).

But it's also served to inform- prior to this happening I had no idea about Maccabi Haifa other that they are an Israeli team. I now know that they are well supported by arab Israelis and the demographic of Haifa is quite encouraging with regards to jews and muslim living together in relative peace.