Historical ignorance

[Bartok]

"The crisis in historical thinking is certainly real. The dislocations of the past two centuries, the propaganda apparatuses of totalitarian powers, disillusionment with the paradigms of the Enlightenment, and popular culture itself have all served to make the search for a precious and communicable past one of the most pressing problems of our time." - George Libsitz

http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/histignr.html

"One out of five students thought Watergate occurred before 1900 and only one-third could place the Civil War within the correct half-century... 38 percent of adults and 53 percent of high school students did not even know the meaning of the term Holocaust... A 1977 study of over 2,000 West Germans aged 14 to 16 revealed that nearly half knew little about the activities of the Third Reich."

Are we all going to pay a high price for our lack of historical awareness?

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

"The crisis in historical thinking is certainly real. The dislocations of the past two centuries, the propaganda apparatuses of totalitarian powers, disillusionment with the paradigms of the Enlightenment, and popular culture itself have all served to make the search for a precious and communicable past one of the most pressing problems of our time." - George Libsitz

http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/histignr.html

"One out of five students thought Watergate occurred before 1900 and only one-third could place the Civil War within the correct half-century... 38 percent of adults and 53 percent of high school students did not even know the meaning of the term Holocaust... A 1977 study of over 2,000 West Germans aged 14 to 16 revealed that nearly half knew little about the activities of the Third Reich."

Are we all going to pay a high price for our lack of historical awareness?

To be fair Colin it's not everyone who's interested in history , i never was

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs

To be fair Colin it's not everyone who's interested in history , i never was

Fair enough but kids need to know, for example, what the holocaust was.

How are we supposed to teach them why it is wrong to hate other nationalities* if they aren't being taught they consequences.



(*Except the Swiss).

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

Fair enough but kids need to know, for example, what the holocaust was.

How are we supposed to teach them why it is wrong to hate other nationalities* if they aren't being taught they consequences.



(*Except the Swiss).

To be honest i don't really see why they need to know , is anti racism the sort of thing we need to teach in schools ? perhaps we should teach why rape , murder and muggings are equally wrong

[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

Fair enough but kids need to know, for example, what the holocaust was.

How are we supposed to teach them why it is wrong to hate other nationalities* if they aren't being taught they consequences.



(*Except the Swiss).

exactly - people should know about history. people should be aware of the sacrafices made by our countrymen (or own family) made for this country to remain free. even if you dont enjoy it atleast have some awareness of it!

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac

exactly - people should know about history. people should be aware of the sacrafices made by our countrymen (or own family) made for this country to remain free. even if you dont enjoy it atleast have some awareness of it!

Well if they take history they will i would imagine
If history is of no interest to you why learn it

[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs

Well if they take history they will i would imagine
If history is of no interest to you why learn it

I said people should be aware of it - i didnt like art at school so i didnt take it but im aware of it!!!

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac

exactly - people should know about history. people should be aware of the sacrafices made by our countrymen (or own family) made for this country to remain free. even if you dont enjoy it atleast have some awareness of it!

That's an excellent point C.

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac

I said people should be aware of it - i didnt like art at school so i didnt take it but im aware of it!!!

And you think people are unaware ot the holocaust ?
I'm not an expert on it but i certainly know what happened

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs

To be honest i don't really see why they need to know , is anti racism the sort of thing we need to teach in schools ? perhaps we should teach why rape , murder and muggings are equally wrong

Teaching history of the Nazis isn't about teaching anti-racism, but if anyone can't see a clear message after a few lessons about the holocaust they need their head checked.

It doesn't teach anti-war messages either, but a few lessons about the Somme will teach them that it isn't all big guns, battle songs and shiney medals.

Etc etc

And as for teaching right or wrong (rape, muggings etc) - that's a whole different subject.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs

And you think people are unaware ot the holocaust ?
I'm not an expert on it but i certainly know what happened

According to the research DC mentioned "38 percent of adults and 53 percent of high school students did not even know the meaning of the term Holocaust..."

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

Teaching history of the Nazis isn't about teaching anti-racism, but if anyone can't see a clear message after a few lessons about the holocaust they need their head checked.

It doesn't teach anti-war messages either, but a few lessons about the Somme will teach them that it isn't all big guns, battle songs and shiney medals.

Etc etc

And as for teaching right or wrong (rape, muggings etc) - that's a whole different subject.

so why say "How are we supposed to teach them why it is wrong to hate other nationalities" ???

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

According to the research DC mentioned "38 percent of adults and 53 percent of high school students did not even know the meaning of the term Holocaust..."

But probably the same percentage can't spell or count well either mate .
How many people can wire a plug correctly for example ?
You are always going to get thick people

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs

so why say "How are we supposed to teach them why it is wrong to hate other nationalities" ???

OK. I'll change that to 'how are they supposed to learn for themselves why it is wrong to hate other nationalities, based on what we show them from the past'.

Like I say, I was never told that it's wrong to hate others in school. But the history lessons about Hitler and his pals made it pretty obvious. I reckon that's worthwhile.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs

But probably the same percentage can't spell or count well either mate .
How many people can wire a plug correctly for example ?
You are always going to get thick people

Teach nobody anything because lots of people know nothing?

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

OK. I'll change that to 'how are they supposed to learn for themselves why it is wrong to hate other nationalities, based on what we show them from the past'.

Like I say, I was never told that it's wrong to hate others in school. But the history lessons about Hitler and his pals made it pretty obvious. I reckon that's worthwhile.

But there are lots of things they don't teach in schools that you know are wrong as you grow up . I'm sure if it came to a teachers attention that you hated someone they would tell you it is wrong

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

Teach nobody anything because lots of people know nothing?

Far too cryptic for me i'm afraid

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

But there are lots of things they don't teach in schools that you know are wrong as you grow up .

Again, so why bother teaching anything? I don't see how you can prove a point with such a broad negative.

[HailHail]

As Tom Devine recently highlighted, this is a huge problem in Britain. There is a historiographical crisis that not only clouds our past and gives us only the 'pro british establishment unionist viewpoint' but also a great suppression of many truths and deliberate playing down of certain events.
In our case Sir Walter Scot-land has a lot to answer for, but so do many credible historians need to look at things again. (get ready for the rant)

lies still openly taught include

Calgacus's speech before mons graupius (Tacitus wrote it)

That Scotland had the same feudal structure as England

The whole short bow /long bow/knights templar bannockburn thing

That scotland reformed religously smoothly and sensibly ( it was in fact so john knox could get his grubby old mits on a landowners 17 year old daughter, a landowner who benefited greatly from the land transfer)

That the good scots army of the mid 17th century was anti stuart, it wasn't. ( Cromwell transported all of them to america and the west indies after they surrendered at Preston)

That the glorious revolution was popular.

the warped version of the war of the two kings in Ireland (1689-91)

The union being a good deal for Scotland, rather than being simple annexation in a bid to control /end our foreign policy.

That jacobitism caused the highland clearances and ended as a major force in 1746.

Someone wants to make a PROPER history of Scotland documentary, like the schama history of britain one, and show it at prime time.

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

Again, so why bother teaching anything? I don't see how you can prove a point with such a broad negative.

Well thats me told again , sorry i can't make a point better but i admit i'm not the most intelligent person , more practical really does that make me ignorant ?