Historical ignorance

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby
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Remembering history lessons from my own schooldays, it seemed to be full of English-based lessons, ie Medieval times, Tudor England, the Cavaliers & Roundheads, War of the Roses, etc. I was never taught, in great detail and prolonged periods, anything about our history, not as we were from the English angle.
I had to basicly self-educate myself on Scottish history from library books, tv docs, and more recently, internet, to familiarise myself with periods in history of my own country.


Looking back on it, and from the way our country has been governed our the past century, I formed an opinion that the education system, in Scotland, in the past was warped as to "brainwashing" Scots kids to teach them English-only history, and somehow quell any thoughts of a "rebellious nature".



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Thats my take on it, anyway
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Didn't get much English History accept 1066. Did the Jacobite Rebellions?

Chucked History in 2nd year but went back later and crashed the Higher. Loved it.

[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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What ????? If i make a mistake what the hell has it to do with history ?
Supposing i make the same fuck up twice in one week at work , are you saying its something to do with me not knowing anything about history
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Did you not read Colr's post???

As for History at school:

Only history from primary school that i can remember was Jacobites(P6) and World War 2(P7).

S1 The Romans
S2 Scottish Wars of Independence
S3+S4 Britain in the 1850s to the 1930s, World War 1, Germany 1918-1933
S5 Liberal Reforms, National Government, Labour post World War 2, Appeasment and the Road to war and Italy 1871-1945.
S6 House Divided - America 1850-1865.

Hoping to do Scottish History at Uni next year. The only subject i have ever liked in school and i find it really interesting.

[HailHail]

When I was at school I was beaten regularly by my teacher every 20 minutes and it never did me any harm. except for psychological maladjustment and blurred vision. (monty python ripoff smiley)

Gunner is right. There has been a deliberate attempt to gently brainwash people into thinking that Scottish Jacobitism and Scottish nationalism were seperate enititys, so as to 'dull the blow' of the attrocities commited by english troops and influential Scots who had a great interest in not seeing the scottish parliament restored. money behind it all as usual
'bought and sold for english gold'.

theway the cooshed is the now can we expect a 'sticky' thread on jacobitism/indepedence/unionism
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[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac
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Did you not read Colr's post???

As for History at school:

Only history from primary school that i can remember was Jacobites(P6) and World War 2(P7).

S1 The Romans
S2 Scottish Wars of Independence
S3+S4 Britain in the 1850s to the 1930s, World War 1, Germany 1918-1933
S5 Liberal Reforms, National Government, Labour post World War 2, Appeasment and the Road to war and Italy 1871-1945.
S6 House Divided - America 1850-1865.

Hoping to do Scottish History at Uni next year. The only subject i have ever liked in school and i find it really interesting.

I was asking YOU the queastion not ColR.
Come on schoolboy , preach to a 45 year old about life .
If you are into history then fine , i'm not and never have been so accept it .
Once you have been everywhere and done everything you can tell me about mistakes .
Fuckin students
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[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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I was asking YOU the queastion not ColR.
Come on schoolboy , preach to a 45 year old about life .
If you are into history then fine , i'm not and never have been so accept it .
Once you have been everywhere and done everything you can tell me about mistakes .
Fuckin students
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My comment was due to Colrs post so you obviously didnt read his post.

Oh the old patronising comment because you being 45 and me being 17 makes you right before i even make a comment.

Fuckin adults!
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[Dunc89]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac
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Hoping to do Scottish History at Uni next year. The only subject i have ever liked in school and i find it really interesting.

Where are you hoping to go? I'm hoping to study history too (doing my advanced higher currently), but I've not decided which uni I want to study at.

[part/time supporter]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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When I was at school I was beaten regularly by my teacher every 20 minutes and it never did me any harm. except for psychological maladjustment and blurred vision. (monty python ripoff smiley)

Gunner is right. There has been a deliberate attempt to gently brainwash people into thinking that Scottish Jacobitism and Scottish nationalism were seperate enititys, so as to 'dull the blow' of the attrocities commited by english troops and influential Scots who had a great interest in not seeing the scottish parliament restored. money behind it all as usual
'bought and sold for english gold'.

theway the cooshed is the now can we expect a 'sticky' thread on jacobitism/indepedence/unionism
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But aren't they different concepts wrt the '45? If Charlie had been in any way a Scottish nationalist, shouldn't he have stopped after Prestonpans and made a unilateral declaration of Scotland independence?

...

Thinking from my own experience, the only Scottish history was a little bit about the wars of independence at Primary school. Most of high school history was on Nazism; higher was on Bismarck (much more interesting) with a little bit of UK modern social history. Fortunately there wasn't too much of learning about irrelevant Kings of England. But it is noticeable how much of this there is on Scottish TV compared with our own history pre-Union.

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac
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My comment was due to Colrs post so you obviously didnt read his post.

Oh the old patronising comment because you being 45 and me being 17 makes you right before i even make a comment.

Fuckin adults!
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Sorry son but i don't take kindly to being told about life by a bairn , all i said is that i don't like history. now fuck off and read your books

[Colr]

Originally Posted by part/time supporter
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But aren't they different concepts wrt the '45? If Charlie had been in any way a Scottish nationalist, shouldn't he have stopped after Prestonpans and made a unilateral declaration of Scotland independence?

...

Thinking from my own experience, the only Scottish history was a little bit about the wars of independence at Primary school. Most of high school history was on Nazism; higher was on Bismarck (much more interesting) with a little bit of UK modern social history. Fortunately there wasn't too much of learning about irrelevant Kings of England. But it is noticeable how much of this there is on Scottish TV compared with our own history pre-Union.

He wanted the Crown of the UK not just Scotland.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by part/time supporter
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But aren't they different concepts wrt the '45? If Charlie had been in any way a Scottish nationalist, shouldn't he have stopped after Prestonpans and made a unilateral declaration of Scotland independence?

...

Thinking from my own experience, the only Scottish history was a little bit about the wars of independence at Primary school. Most of high school history was on Nazism; higher was on Bismarck (much more interesting) with a little bit of UK modern social history. Fortunately there wasn't too much of learning about irrelevant Kings of England. But it is noticeable how much of this there is on Scottish TV compared with our own history pre-Union.

He wanted both crowns that were stolen from his grandad in 1688, though he would have reinstituted the scottish parliament had he been successful. There's no doubt about that.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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He wanted both crowns that were stolen from his grandad in 1688, though he would have reinstituted the scottish parliament had he been successful. There's no doubt about that.

The wee Italian to**er should have stayed in 'North Britain' and consolidated his position, and let fear run rampant darn sarf!!

[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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Sorry son but i don't take kindly to being told about life by a bairn , all i said is that i don't like history. now fuck off and read your books

A) not a bairn
B) i was not telling you off - i was making a comment as to Colrs are your post.
C) it doesnt matter if you like history or if you dont i only ever said you should be aware.
D) that last comment is simply disgraceful.

Originally Posted by Dunc89
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Where are you hoping to go? I'm hoping to study history too (doing my advanced higher currently), but I've not decided which uni I want to study at.

Stirling - got an A at advanced higher

[BurbankHibee]

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby
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Remembering history lessons from my own schooldays, it seemed to be full of English-based lessons, ie Medieval times, Tudor England, the Cavaliers & Roundheads, War of the Roses, etc. I was never taught, in great detail and prolonged periods, anything about our history, not as we were from the English angle.
I had to basicly self-educate myself on Scottish history from library books, tv docs, and more recently, internet, to familiarise myself with periods in history of my own country.

Your and Tony Soprano's experience are pretty much in line with mine. I definately feel we were gypped on Scottish history when I was at school. Maybe we did get a wee bit, I vaguely remember a trip to Banockburn but we hardly touched on Scottish history. Enlightenment ? What Enlightenment ? Maybe it was all covered in 3rd and 4th year but by that time I was lost to it.

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby
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Looking back on it, and from the way our country has been governed our the past century, I formed an opinion that the education system, in Scotland, in the past was warped as to "brainwashing" Scots kids to teach them English-only history, and somehow quell any thoughts of a "rebellious nature".



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Thats my take on it, anyway
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You might be right.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by cavalier
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The wee Italian to**er should have stayed in 'North Britain' and consolidated his position, and let fear run rampant darn sarf!!

perhaps, and to await better french help than the 800 irish brigade men and 70 cavalrymen he got. He could also have took advatage of the widening conspiracy within the british army had he hung around, ironically as William had done in 1688 to replace his grandfather in the first place.

I've completely changed my mind about BPC in the last nine months. His tactic in 1745 was actually not to beat the british army but to use his mobile largely highland army to capture london and it's exchequer and negotiate a return for himself , again like william did in 1688. London and its parliament always being fans of the winning side he probably would have gotten away with it too.

[Bartok]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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... my view is that teachers especially at primary and secondary level have a first priority to engage. That is, to spark enthusiasm, to cultivate an interest - and so on.

Agree, and I include lots of sex and violence in my lessons as a first step. To get them to the next level (where students are interested in causality and social and economic change) is usually tougher. Suggestions always welcome.

They also could serve a useful purpose by transferring some knowledge.

Ah. What about the knowledge that Scotland was in a golden age prior to her forcible incorporation in a pernicious Act of Union; should I pass that knowledge on? It's tempting, I'll admit.

I've been thinking about this and concluded you (as a profession) maybe need to trust yourself more. I understand the reasons for your suspicion of influencing, but ultimately, to eradicate it completely is (imho) worse. I trust you dude, you should have more faith in yourself. Your human fallibility does not put you in the same box as the comintern.

You haven't met some of my colleagues, especially on this side of the water.
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[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac
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A) not a bairn
B) i was not telling you off - i was making a comment as to Colrs are your post.
C) it doesnt matter if you like history or if you dont i only ever said you should be aware.
D) that last comment is simply disgraceful.

A) You are compared to me
B) You were lecturing me
C) I am aware of things that matter to me
D) Tough

[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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A) You are compared to me
B) You were lecturing me
C) I am aware of things that matter to me
D) Tough

was I
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people should be aware of things that are important - you dont have to like it but things like the holocaust people should be aware of.

it would be different if somebody made that sort of comment to you for no reason!!!

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by CadgeMac
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was I
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people should be aware of things that are important - you dont have to like it but things like the holocaust people should be aware of.

it would be different if somebody made that sort of comment to you for no reason!!!

People don't have to be taught something in school to be aware of something do they ?
To not be aware of the holocaust you would need to live on Mars or something.
I've had plenty nasty comments on here and i've dished out a few too , its the way it goes no need to get upset

[CadgeMac]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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People don't have to be taught something in school to be aware of something do they ?
To not be aware of the holocaust you would need to live on Mars or something.
I've had plenty nasty comments on here and i've dished out a few too , its the way it goes no need to get upset

Thats what i said!

Dixies article proves otherwise.

Im not upset its that there was no need for those comments!