Police Caution Tim Goallie

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby
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Aye and pish like Only A Game which trivialises the whole issue as viewers giggle at childish references to masons and the Pope. How many years will this tripe be on? I've a theory it only survives because it's the only telly programme that can say 97% of it's viewers are pished out their face. Trying watching it sober - it's feckin crap.

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spot on. it's the same with much of the WoS meeja - po faced as fcuk about in on one hand, then a wee bit nudge nudge wink wink whae's like us pish on the other.

they don't want it to change.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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I'm shattered so can't process your excellent points except in a basic way, but is it your view that this type of perceived victimhood is created, then, by circumstance and would this happen to, say, protestants if they were in a similar position.

What interests me is the fact that some people in Liverpool and Glasgow have been at one time or another been accused of such theatrical victim behaviour (wether justified or not), if these claims are true was the habit 'exported from Ireland' or did it develop independently due to the circumstances you described.

If the latter, then it may be true to say that Ulster Loyalists - who are more recently developing a fine skill for playing victim, as opposed to their former defensive, insular, leave-us-alone stance - are finding themselves in the circumstances described by your above post: showing that such professional victimhood close to home is nothing peculiar to the 'Irish'.

In fact, maybe in 100 years we'll see the whole thing turn full circle and loyalists will have a higher percentage of whining newspapers, support groups and politicians in due course.

Potentially it could happen, but loyalists have some things going against them - all that red white and blue stuff for a start. it is after all one of the things that's seen the working class re-identified as untermenschen.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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Potentially it could happen, but loyalists have some things going against them - all that red white and blue stuff for a start. it is after all one of the things that's seen the working class re-identified as untermenschen.

Firstly, thank-you for my new word for today (via a Google search).

I definately think loyalists have been studying PR and political tactics previously employed only by republicans - like I said, the loyalist approach used to be to stamp their feet and say 'leave us alone' - so it'll be interesting to see how they get on.

Particularly as SF are going to have to slowly step back from all the bleeding heart stuff (as they're running out of material...be careful what you wish for, it might just come true!), so that'll make any loyalist boo-hoo chicanery look even more obvious and dated.

[Archie]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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Potentially it could happen, but loyalists have some things going against them - all that red white and blue stuff for a start. it is after all one of the things that's seen the working class re-identified as untermenschen.

I know I shouldn't - but who has defined working class people as untermenschen?

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Archie
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I know I shouldn't - but who has defined working class people as untermenschen?

Everyone who has ever used the word 'chav'???

[Dub]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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Everyone who has ever used the word 'chav'???

Not all chavs are working class people and/or vice versa so that doesnt wash. (No soap dodger jokes please).

Would like to know the answer as I havent heard untermenschen being spoken off outside the third reich.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Archie
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I know I shouldn't - but who has defined working class people as untermenschen?

As NIH notes the whole 'chav' phenomena which has transcended the partially understandable (though OTOH no more justified than drawing similar conclusions about urban black youth troublemakers ) - resentment at hooligan youths, into something much more pernicious; a demonisation of poor white trash (to use an americanism). if there is a more vile site on the web, that is not subject to a commensurate level of opprobrium, than 'chavscum', then I don't know what it is.

Or perhaps the casual bigotry of broadsheet newspaper columnists who I have seen blithely declare that chaps who drive white vans and have short hair are typical BNP voters. (Imagine a similar observation about bearded muslims and terrorism).

Or just the way that New Labour has turned it's back on them.

My favourite nutshell example - though clearly it's no more representative in itself, that a post on here - was a poster on the old guardian boards who memorably argued that it was alright to hate the working class cos they are all racists and homophobes.

Julie Burchill, fud and hypocrite that she is, has some interesting observations on the subject now and again. The hard left - not fellow travellers of mine, I'm sure you'd concede - also seem to recognise it judging by some of their web stuff.

[Colr]

Being debated on the phone in on Radio 2 at the moment - I haven't laughed so much in years. What a bunch of fannies!!!
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[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Colr
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Being debated on the phone in on Radio 2 at the moment - I haven't laughed so much in years. What a bunch of fannies!!!
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Being debated on Radio Ulster at length at the moment: Celtic fans phoning in STILL aren't getting the point that he wasn't done for crossing himself.

I'm disgusted with the radio coverage of this, the fact that he wasn't actually booked for the actual act of blessing himself is quickly made by the presenter before letting countless loons get into a froth.

I lost my rag and sent in a comment which, to be fair, was read on air:

"The presenter has himself noted that the Celtic goalkeeper's caution
was not soley related to the sign of the cross: in fact my
understanding is that it is related to provocative behaviour in general.

"With this in mind, I think the media's coverage of this story has
been a disgrace in that hour after hour of radio coverage has been given to something that it seems would have been an offence wether the sign of the cross was made or not.

"Do the media feel any sense of responsibility for giving endless
coverage to such a misunderstood incident, bearing in mind the facts are likely to be ignored by persons entrenched on both 'sides' and will
contribute towards further division.

"I think the BBC often manages to help perpetuate the issue of
sectarianism in Glasgow football/ supporters through its disproportionate and irresponsible coverage."


Fecking idiots. The BBC is turning into the Daily Star.

[Archie]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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As NIH notes the whole 'chav' phenomena which has transcended the partially understandable (though OTOH no more justified than drawing similar conclusions about urban black youth troublemakers ) - resentment at hooligan youths, into something much more pernicious; a demonisation of poor white trash (to use an americanism). if there is a more vile site on the web, that is not subject to a commensurate level of opprobrium, than 'chavscum', then I don't know what it is.

Or perhaps the casual bigotry of broadsheet newspaper columnists who I have seen blithely declare that chaps who drive white vans and have short hair are typical BNP voters. (Imagine a similar observation about bearded muslims and terrorism).

Or just the way that New Labour has turned it's back on them.

My favourite nutshell example - though clearly it's no more representative in itself, that a post on here - was a poster on the old guardian boards who memorably argued that it was alright to hate the working class cos they are all racists and homophobes.

Julie Burchill, fud and hypocrite that she is, has some interesting observations on the subject now and again. The hard left - not fellow travellers of mine, I'm sure you'd concede - also seem to recognise it judging by some of their web stuff.

But with the exception of a random poster on a Guardian website (as extrapolated by you) nobody is actually arguing that working class people are a racially inferior grouping - have I got this right?

[Colr]

From the BBC report:-

"The police have reported that it took 10 minutes to restore normality in the crowd."

Believe that when I see it.
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[Hampden_Hibby]

I can't believe these hypocritical media bastards. Colquhoun and Walker and that doughball Delahunt sitting pontificating on Scotsport about how the Crown Office should have told them earlier that Boruc wasn't cautioned merely for crossing himself!! Apparently it's all the Fiscal's fault!

As I said at 11 o'clock on Saturday morning on this thread, the Crown Office report said "a combination of behaviours". Feckin media only want to extract what they want.

Now the clowns are back on the topic of debating whether he should've been cautioned for blessing himself?? I give up. Go on Delahunt - go on Celtic apologist Walker - go on and ask the relevant question - should Boruc be cautioned for giving the vicky vees followed by a wanking gesture. The silence is feckin deafening! Hypocritical sensationalist shites the lot of them.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby
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I can't believe these hypocritical media bastards. Colquhoun and Walker and that doughball Delahunt sitting pontificating on Scotsport about how the Crown Office should have told them earlier that Boruc wasn't cautioned merely for crossing himself!! Apparently it's all the Fiscal's fault!

As I said at 11 o'clock on Saturday morning on this thread, the Crown Office report said "a combination of behaviours". Feckin media only want to extract what they want.

Now the clowns are back on the topic of debating whether he should've been cautioned for blessing himself?? I give up. Go on Delahunt - go on Celtic apologist Walker - go on and ask the relevant question - should Boruc be cautioned for giving the vicky vees followed by a wanking gesture. The silence is feckin deafening! Hypocritical sensationalist shites the lot of them.

Here, here.

My last shred of respect for BBC News hs gone out the window with this one: just p1ss poor journalistic standards.

Every weekend radio desk new-start journo in the land got hold of this on Saturday and got into a flap without reading the small print. Like I said before, fecking amateurs.

[TonySoprano]

[quote=Northern Ireland Hibby;497037]My last shred of respect for BBC News hs gone out the window with this one: just p1ss poor journalistic standards.
QUOTE]

Obviously you're not au fait with the work of the legend that is Bob Wylie.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Archie
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But with the exception of a random poster on a Guardian website (as extrapolated by you) nobody is actually arguing that working class people are a racially inferior grouping - have I got this right?

I've wasn't talking about 'race'. You are adopting to literal an interpretation, I'm talking about the demonisation and dehumanisation of a group. Doesn't have to be racially defined group. And I provided more than one example.

That said, the same attitude towards the lumpen-proletrariat spurred the development of eugenics amongst the forefathers of today's elites.

I think perhaps you're hiding behind diffusion Archie. The atomisation of today's society means that there are less often insitutionalised embodiments of currents of thought - so, for instance, while it's easy to point the finger at churchs, govts and so on, it's not so straightforward to identify culprits for what are diffused sentiments. Doesn't mean they aren't there.

Let's put it this way, do you disagree with the notion that - using somebody elses words (i forget who) - the working class - or at least a section of it - are being repositioned from salt to scum of the earth?

It's a resurfacement of old ideas - are you familiar with the notion of the deserving vs undeserving poor?

[Archie]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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I've wasn't talking about 'race'. You are adopting to literal an interpretation, I'm talking about the demonisation and dehumanisation of a group. Doesn't have to be racially defined group. And I provided more than one example.

Well given the very loaded use of the term and it's direct relationship to Nazi philosopy it's difficult not to take it at face value. Not sure the examples quoted really could be called significant evidence.

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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That said, the same attitude towards the lumpen-proletrariat spurred the development of eugenics amongst the forefathers of today's elites.

What untermenchen? Where and who?

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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I think perhaps you're hiding behind diffusion Archie. The atomisation of today's society means that there are less often insitutionalised embodiments of currents of thought - so, for instance, while it's easy to point the finger at churchs, govts and so on, it's not so straightforward to identify culprits for what are diffused sentiments. Doesn't mean they aren't there.

Is Derrida in the room - I don't understand the point at all.

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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Let's put it this way, do you disagree with the notion that - using somebody elses words (i forget who) - the working class - or at least a section of it - are being repositioned from salt to scum of the earth?

Don't accept the general premise - in fact I detect a reinforcement of getting in touch with working class values cf Ruth Kelly and much of the Executive's anti-social behaviour approach.

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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It's a resurfacement of old ideas - are you familiar with the notion of the deserving vs undeserving poor?

Very - but it's the first time I've seen it use from a right wing perspective to critique the left and liberals. Surely if you accept this idea then your unidimensional notion of the working class doesn't work?

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Archie
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Well given the very loaded use of the term and it's direct relationship to Nazi philosopy it's difficult not to take it at face value. Not sure the examples quoted really could be called significant evidence.

are you familiar with the concept of 'analogy'?

What untermenchen? Where and who?

well, the ubermenschen included such bastions of the then liberal elite as george ( all 'non enlightend jews should be liquidated') bernard shaw, hg wells, aldous huxley, bertrand russell, the fabian society...

Is Derrida in the room - I don't understand the point at all.

now you're hiding behind feigned ignorance. i can be verbose archie, but the point is clear enough. if you're unaware of the debate on social atomisation you're less well read than i took you for.

Don't accept the general premise - in fact I detect a reinforcement of getting in touch with working class values cf Ruth Kelly and much of the Executive's anti-social behaviour approach.

oh yes, ruth kelly, another fellow traveller of mine
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Very - but it's the first time I've seen it use from a right wing perspective to critique the left and liberals. Surely if you accept this idea then your unidimensional notion of the working class doesn't work?

i don't feckin accept this idea. i'm using it to illustrate the point, although on reflection it's probably inappropriate. why? because poverty is not definitive here - you can escape poverty, in fact become wealthy and still be despised for you gauche, lumpen ways.

it's class hatred and i despise it.

if we have come to such a pass, that that's a right wing stance these days - well, archie, i think that proves my thesis mate.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Unless they have put a roof on Hampden (and you are the person who should be able to say if that is the case!) it isn't fecking inside, which is what the legislation says is an offence.

Same with ER behind the terracing (even in the terracing is highly suspect) btw. It's not what is covered by the law. There are ground regulations saying you can't smoke, but if anyone tells you that you're breaking the law they're talking pish.

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