Independence First referendum petition

[Dublin_Hibee]

knicked this from another forum.............

Independence First has lodged a petition with the Public Petitions Committee of the Scottish Parliament. The petition asks the Parliament to find a way to hold a referendum on self determination for Scotland.

As part of the process the Parliament has put the petition online to gauge the level of public support. It is most important that we gather as many signatures and favourable comments as possible. If you believe in self determination for Scotland visit http://epetitions.scottish.parliamen...PetitionID=123 and tell them so.

[JamieHibby]

Originally Posted by Dublin_Hibee

knicked this from another forum.............

Independence First has lodged a petition with the Public Petitions Committee of the Scottish Parliament. The petition asks the Parliament to find a way to hold a referendum on self determination for Scotland.

As part of the process the Parliament has put the petition online to gauge the level of public support. It is most important that we gather as many signatures and favourable comments as possible. If you believe in self determination for Scotland visit http://epetitions.scottish.parliamen...PetitionID=123 and tell them so.

signed

[Dublin_Hibee]

tapadh leat AG

[JamieHibby]

Originally Posted by Dublin_Hibee

tapadh leat AG

you're welcome I'll pass the link around

[Smurf]

There is just no interest from us Scots in Independence.

[Stewart_HfC]

explain that please smurf! youve confused me :s

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Smurf

There is just no interest from us Scots in Independence.

Fine. Have a referendum to prove that.

[part/time supporter]

Originally Posted by Smurf

There is just no interest from us Scots in Independence.

I'm tempted to say "speak for yourself", but to an extent I agree with you. I don't think that a referendum should be held until there is a clear political will for that constitutional change to be made.

Even if the SNP did become the single largest party after the next Scottish election with (say) 38 seats, I don't think that one could categorically state that such political will existed at that point.

Although the legality of any such referendum and the consequences of its outcome (whichever way it went) would need to be investigated and agreed before it was held. If that isn't done, there would be a risk (however small) of the situation going beyond politics (terrorism or even war).

[Brian]

Originally Posted by part/time supporter

I don't think that a referendum should be held until there is a clear political will for that constitutional change to be made.

... and how are you going to establish that ? By referendum perhaps ?

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Fine. Have a referendum to prove that.

We have Scottish Parliamentary Elections around the corner.

Surely those that want Independence will vote for a Party standing on an Independence ticket?

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Smurf

We have Scottish Parliamentary Elections around the corner.

Surely those that want Independence will vote for a Party standing on an Independence ticket?

If the SSP dropped independence from their manifesto I would still vote for them because that's not my primary reason for voting for them. I also know a decent number of people who vote Labour who favour independence but would never vote for the SNP.

FWIW I am in favour of referenda on far more subjects than we get the chance to voice our opinion on. Personally I would say that nothing should become law until it is approved by the people unless it was in a manifesto of a party.

[part/time supporter]

Originally Posted by Brian

... and how are you going to establish that ? By referendum perhaps ?

Parliamentary elections.

I don't want a situation of "neverenda"; ie referenda every few years. Quebec ended up in this situation 10-15 years ago, and it actually had the effect of checking the independence movement there. I don't think that the failed referendum of 1979 did Scottish separatism (devolution or independence) much good either.

If you have a build up of political will before then bringing forward a referendum, the constitutional reform is far more likely to stick. If there hadn't been that build-up with the 1997 referendum, then it is quite possible that the SP (given its early struggles) would have been abolished by now.

Originally Posted by wee162

I also know a decent number of people who vote Labour who favour independence but would never vote for the SNP.

That isn't that surprising, as independence support always runs ahead of SNP support in the polls. There must be a fair number of people who would like independence, but it is not their main political priority. Hence why they end up voting for other parties.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by wee 162

If the SSP dropped independence from their manifesto I would still vote for them because that's not my primary reason for voting for them. I also know a decent number of people who vote Labour who favour independence but would never vote for the SNP.

You've just perfectly highlighted IMO the fundamental weakness of the SNP. IMO the SNP should just be an Independence movement. They should have no policies as the reality is that in the event of Independence - if us Scots voted for it - they will cease to exist anyway.

I have to say though that if you were to vote SSP (Can i ask if you are Sheridan or Fox out of interest?) regardless to whether they were pro Independence or not then it can't be a top priority for you?

Why not gain Independence through the SNP and campaign for the SSP in a Independent Scotland?

Originally Posted by wee 162

FWIW I am in favour of referenda on far more subjects than we get the chance to voice our opinion on. Personally I would say that nothing should become law until it is approved by the people unless it was in a manifesto of a party.

Interesting and with technology something that could return faith and confidence in democracy.

[Dublin_Hibee]

They should have no policies as the reality is that in the event of Independence - if us Scots voted for it - they will cease to exist anyway.

agreed, I think the political parties in Scotland as we know them at the moment would all cease to exist to a certain extent after independence, i.e the Scottish Labour/Liberals/Tories would no longer be attached to the British version of the parties and would even perhaps re-form under other names.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by part/time supporter

That isn't that surprising, as independence support always runs ahead of SNP support in the polls. There must be a fair number of people who would like independence, but it is not their main political priority. Hence why they end up voting for other parties.

Which is exactly the same as me. In any independence referendum, I would vote for independence, but I'm certainly not going to vote for a party who don't remotely represent me politically.

[Dublin_Hibee]

If the SSP dropped independence from their manifesto I would still vote for them because that's not my primary reason for voting for them. I also know a decent number of people who vote Labour who favour independence but would never vote for the SNP.

This is what Independence First is all about, getting people from all political backgrounds together under the "independence" umbrella and working towards indepedence and worrying about the political parties in power etc afterwards.

http://www.independence1st.com/

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Smurf

I have to say though that if you were to vote SSP (Can i ask if you are Sheridan or Fox out of interest?) regardless to whether they were pro Independence or not then it can't be a top priority for you?

If you are asking whether independence is in second place to socialism in my political perspective, I hardly think it will come as a major shock to say that that is the case.

I'm not into cults of personality, and I don't vote for political parties based on who the leader is. If I did I certainly wouldn't have contributed my vote to Labour in 97...

Originally Posted by Smurf

Why not gain Independence through the SNP and campaign for the SSP in a Independent Scotland?

Because I think the SNP are power hungry careerists with not a coherent political ideology holding them together, and I don't think they will win.

[Pilrig]

Originally Posted by part/time supporter

Parliamentary elections.

I don't think that the failed referendum of 1979 did Scottish separatism (devolution or independence) much good either.

Actually in 1979 the Yes votes outnumbered the No votes, albeit narrowly, but we still we didn't get home rule (we got Maggie instead) -isn't Westminster democracy wonderful and the envy of the world ?!

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Pilrig

Actually in 1979 the Yes votes outnumbered the No votes, albeit narrowly, but we still we didn't get home rule (we got Maggie instead) -isn't Westminster democracy wonderful and the envy of the world ?!

Aye but we've got it now thanks to this dreadful New Labour Government..

[Pilrig]

Originally Posted by Smurf

Aye but we've got it now thanks to this dreadful New Labour Government..

Your decription not mine but I won't argue.

[The__Proclaimer]

18 years of getting hammered by Thatcherism and Tory rule, yet the majority of Scots still never voted for a pro-indepence party. People obviously don't want it.