Pubs / Smoking Ban

[hibadelic]

In this morning's Scotsman there's an article saying that pub takings are down 11% since the smoking ban. Reading further into the article, it seems that it is what they call "traditional" pubs that are losing out most as they are losing their regulars who would rather drink at home than spend the entire night on the street smoking.

Should these pubs be doing more to adapt and attract new clients, ie. is it just poor management to blame if the pub is failing?

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by hibadelic
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In this morning's Scotsman there's an article saying that pub takings are down 11% since the smoking ban. Reading further into the article, it seems that it is what they call "traditional" pubs that are losing out most as they are losing their regulars who would rather drink at home than spend the entire night on the street smoking.

Should these pubs be doing more to adapt and attract new clients, ie. is it just poor management to blame if the pub is failing?

No - the smoking ban should have had an opt-out for a small number of pubs to take this into account.

[Hibbie0762]

Originally Posted by hibadelic
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In this morning's Scotsman there's an article saying that pub takings are down 11% since the smoking ban. Reading further into the article, it seems that it is what they call "traditional" pubs that are losing out most as they are losing their regulars who would rather drink at home than spend the entire night on the street smoking.

Should these pubs be doing more to adapt and attract new clients, ie. is it just poor management to blame if the pub is failing?

Maybe no bad thing if a side effect of the ban is that it is keeping away from "traditional" pubs some of the all-day bevvieheads who tend to prop up the bar with an everlasting fag/pint/nip near to hand. Scotland's health record on smoking was pretty disastrous, but our record on the misuse of alcohol and the associated health and other issues ain't brilliant either.

I am a long-time proponent of an individual's right to journey to Hell in the handbasket of his or her own choosing, and given that one can't impose passive drinking on non-drinkers as one can passive smoking on non-smokers am generally content to let the serious bevvy merchants get on with frying their livers and fatting up their arteries. But nevertheless a gradual change in culture wouldn't be a bad thing and a fitter Scots nation isn't a bad target - so long as it is done by consent.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Hibbie0762
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Maybe no bad thing if a side effect of the ban is that it is keeping away from "traditional" pubs some of the all-day bevvieheads who tend to prop up the bar with an everlasting fag/pint/nip near to hand. Scotland's health record on smoking was pretty disastrous, but our record on the misuse of alcohol and the associated health and other issues ain't brilliant either.

I am a long-time proponent of an individual's right to journey to Hell in the handbasket of his or her own choosing, and given that one can't impose passive drinking on non-drinkers as one can passive smoking on non-smokers am generally content to let the serious bevvy merchants get on with frying their livers and fatting up their arteries. But nevertheless a gradual change in culture wouldn't be a bad thing and a fitter Scots nation isn't a bad target - so long as it is done by consent.

According to the article at the top of the thread 10% of people don't want to consent, and choose to chain drink/ smoke at home insead
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[Hibbie0762]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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No - the smoking ban should have had an opt-out for a small number of pubs to take this into account.

I disagree - the ban was always going to create winners and losers but I reckon that the health of the nation, and particularly the right of non-smokers to their health, should take precedence over licencees' and shareholders' profits.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Hibbie0762
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I disagree - the ban was always going to create winners and losers but I reckon that the health of the nation, and particularly the right of non-smokers to their health, should take precedence over licencees' and shareholders' profits.

So, say there's 1000 pubs in Edinburgh: 50 of them scattered throughout the city couldn't have been set aside. Non-smokers wouldn't have to use them.

The situation smacks of the selfishness non-smokers used to accuse smokers of so regularly.

[Hibbie0762]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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According to the article at the top of the thread 10% of people don't want to consent, and choose to chain drink/ smoke at home insead
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So be it, so long as they are not polluting or killing me or forcing me to choose between enjoying a pint and not being polluted or killed.

We're really back into the general rights of non-smokers vs so called rights of smokers argument here. The size or viability of the actual premises is not the issue. You can't really justify an argument which says exceptionally my pub should be allowed to pollute or kill non-smokers because otherwise I will lose too much profit.

There are some polls incidentally which show the smoking ban is supported now by and even larger majority than that which supported it prior to its introduction. Not that I am putting too much store by that - the whingeing by the SLTA does not surprise me either, they would say that, wouldn't they? But the ban has not really been in effect long enough to draw definite conclusions one way or the other.

[Hibbie0762]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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So, say there's 1000 pubs in Edinburgh: 50 of them scattered throughout the city couldn't have been set aside. Non-smokers wouldn't have to use them.

The situation smacks of the selfishness non-smokers used to accuse smokers of so regularly.

As I say elsewhere, NIH, we're really back to the smoking/non-smoking thing and the camps are very polarised, not much meeting of minds.

Though from what I can gather the NI Hibs are such a congenial bunch, I'd probably suffer your fag smoke to share a pint with you if I am ever in that part of the world (unless the ban reaches you before then of course!).
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[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by Hibbie0762
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As I say elsewhere, NIH, we're really back to the smoking/non-smoking thing and the camps are very polarised, not much meeting of minds.

Though from what I can gather the NI Hibs are such a congenial bunch, I'd probably suffer your fag smoke to share a pint with you if I am ever in that part of the world (unless the ban reaches you before then of course!).
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Very true - you can only go so far with this one until everyone is on two sides of the fence. I personally think the ban is a good idea, but would have liked a tiny bit of compromise in it.

Funnily enough, I don't smoke and I tend to avoid bars that are very smokey. But you're very, very welcome in Belfast for a jar with the Nibbies anytime
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[Hibbie0762]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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Very true - you can only go so far with this one until everyone is on two sides of the fence. I personally think the ban is a good idea, but would have liked a tiny bit of compromise in it.

There is a tiny bit of compromise. We still let them smoke in the street, even if it's raining or 10 below freezing.
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Funnily enough, I don't smoke and I tend to avoid bars that are very smokey. But you're very, very welcome in Belfast for a jar with the Nibbies anytime

One day not too far away I hope. We were across in Belfast a few years ago for an anniversary and had a brilliant time.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

One day not too far away I hope. We were across a few years ago for an anniversary and had a brilliant time.

There are new hotels, bars and restaurants opening all the time. It's a good time to nip across again before all the stag nights come our way.

Of course, yourselves or any Bouncers visiting would be guests of NI Hibs
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[hibadelic]

The ban is a fact and nothing is going to make the executive u-turn on this. The issue is now (IMO) for the landlords to improve their businesses and make them more attractive to people who wouldn't usually frequent them. For too long "traditional" bars have had a bread and butter clientelle of old pissheids propping up the bar all day and haven't had to look at attracting new customers. Leith Walk is a prime example of this, a change of style wouldn't hurt a few of them.

[Colr]

I was up in Edinburgh for the fist time in a few years back in June and I thought it had a great impact. Its also encouraged a lot more tables into the street.

Good on you. Its one of the benefits of develoution that you can press ahead with changes without waiting on the dopes in Westminster who, in true New Labour style, just talk about the issues, announce they are going to have a debate, then do nothing. (Red Ken is the same - he would chnage his mind if he could tax not smoking!!).

[Hibbie0762]

Originally Posted by Colr
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I was up in Edinburgh for the fist time in a few years back in June and I thought it had a great impact. Its also encouraged a lot more tables into the street.

Good on you. Its one of the benefits of develoution that you can press ahead with changes without waiting on the dopes in Westminster who, in true New Labour style, just talk about the issues, announce they are going to have a debate, then do nothing. (Red Ken is the same - he would chnage his mind if he could tax not smoking!!).

Aye, I'm not often impressed with the antics of the SP or the political acumen of Jack the Hat (which is somewhere on a par with the acting ability of Pammy Anderson) but at least they just bashed on with the ban while the lot down the road still can't decide whether they want a shit or a haircut, as my granny would have said.

[oo2beahibby]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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According to the article at the top of the thread 10% of people don't want to consent, and choose to chain drink/ smoke at home insead
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It also says (albeit with a wee bit arithmetic cryptically thrown in) that 90% have consented.

Although a smoker, I fully support the ban. Last weekend, I was down at a stag do in Cambridge, and having visited both a smoke-full and smoke-free pub within a very short space of time can vouch that smoke-free is a far nicer drinking environment.

[Archie]

How quickly things change - when I'm down south I am amazed at how horrible smokey pubs and restaurants are - I used to think I just didn't notice, but often I just didn't go. I used to go to the Hibs club after games - it was like an opium den. I wonder if it has affected them?

[BEEFY71]

Originally Posted by Archie
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How quickly things change - when I'm down south I am amazed at how horrible smokey pubs and restaurants are - I used to think I just didn't notice, but often I just didn't go. I used to go to the Hibs club after games - it was like an opium den. I wonder if it has affected them?

It didn't take long to notice the difference the 1st time I went down south after the ban was implemented up here.

I was in a boozer outside Upton Park watching The FA Cup Final, it was absolutely mobbed and the low ceilings didn't help and you could hardly see from one side of the pub to the other! I probably wouldn't have paid much attention if it had still been the same up here, but, it was amazing how much of a difference it makes.

Can't wait for the ban to come in down south too!
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[Ewan]

Originally Posted by hibadelic
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Leith Walk is a prime example of this, a change of style wouldn't hurt a few of them.

Like this for example?

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[hibadelic]

It might not be to my taste, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. Another example would be Boda on the corner of Lorne Street which is busy every night of the week.

[BEEFY71]

Originally Posted by Ewan
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Like this for example?

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I used to go in there every now and again to remind myself that life wasn't that bad after all!
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