FAO Hailhail

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

HH,

Under what circumstances should people pass information to the police?

In previous posts you've stated that 'touting' to the police on benefit fraud and terrace bigots is a no no.

Where do you draw the line? And do you expect to have a right to cricise the police if they fail to find, for instance, someone who burgled your house when you don't agree with 'touting'.

Not having a go at you, I'm genuinely interested: this is a big issue in NI, where people claim the police are ineffective on the one hand but are against any co-operation with the same peelers on the other.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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HH,

Under what circumstances should people pass information to the police?

In previous posts you've stated that 'touting' to the police on benefit fraud and terrace bigots is a no no.

Where do you draw the line? And do you expect to have a right to cricise the police if they fail to find, for instance, someone who burgled your house when you don't agree with 'touting'.

Not having a go at you, I'm genuinely interested: this is a big issue in NI, where people claim the police are ineffective on the one hand but are against any co-operation with the same peelers on the other.

as regarding the gARDAI there really is no point reporting anything to them, glorified security guards who won't touch people who are in certain organisations. are psni the same regards that?

if someone attacks you, your family or property then of course you should get cops, though you'd probably have to if making a claim anyway. grassing for grassing's sake just to be nasty isn't right when dealing with benefit fraud or petty things that are nothing to do with you. nobody likes a snitch.
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[cavalier]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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as regarding the gARDAI there really is no point reporting anything to them, glorified security guards who won't touch people who are in certain organisations. are psni the same regards that?

if someone attacks you, your family or property then of course you should get cops, though you'd probably have to if making a claim anyway. grassing for grassing's sake just to be nasty isn't right when dealing with benefit fraud or petty things that are nothing to do with you. nobody likes a snitch.
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But you are being asked to do so by the law enforcement agency of this land. How is that "grassing for grassings sake"?

Young English lad sitting in the east stand watching the game. £ large, drunken arseholes start singing anti-english songs. The young lad is offended but doesn't feel he can challenge the 'offenders' due to age difference, size, whatever, so his only choice is to go "bubbling" to Gestapo officer to ask him to uphold the law of the land. Is he a grass??

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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as regarding the gARDAI there really is no point reporting anything to them, glorified security guards who won't touch people who are in certain organisations. are psni the same regards that?

if someone attacks you, your family or property then of course you should get cops, though you'd probably have to if making a claim anyway. grassing for grassing's sake just to be nasty isn't right when dealing with benefit fraud or petty things that are nothing to do with you. nobody likes a snitch.
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Neither of these institutions police games in Scotland!
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[HailHail]

Originally Posted by cavalier
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But you are being asked to do so by the law enforcement agency of this land. How is that "grassing for grassings sake"?

Young English lad sitting in the east stand watching the game. £ large, drunken arseholes start singing anti-english songs. The young lad is offended but doesn't feel he can challenge the 'offenders' due to age difference, size, whatever, so his only choice is to go "bubbling" to Gestapo officer to ask him to uphold the law of the land. Is he a grass??

hmmm that's a toughie....

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by cavalier
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Neither of these institutions police games in Scotland!
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Conor asked me in general dude
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[cavalier]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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Conor asked me in general dude
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Oh and btw, i know you are of a 'Historical bent', pardon the pun, i picked up a couple of stonking books on the Ancient Greek/Roman empire last week, fantastic stuff. Bit earlier period than i'm used to, medieval like yersel, but its braw stuff. Does your knowledge spread this far??

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

as regarding the gARDAI there really is no point reporting anything to them, glorified security guards who won't touch people who are in certain organisations. are psni the same regards that?

This is where we disagree mate - if no one reports anything to the Garda then they'll always be glorified security guards, then again I don't have much contact with them.

Likewise I try to stay out of the way of the PSNI (or the Continuity RUC depending on your point of view
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). Not sure if they have organisations they don't touch but any time a loyalist or a republican is caught with their hand in the till they cry victimisation. This happens quite a lot so the PSNI must have their moments.

if someone attacks you, your family or property then of course you should get cops, though you'd probably have to if making a claim anyway. grassing for grassing's sake just to be nasty isn't right when dealing with benefit fraud or petty things that are nothing to do with you. nobody likes a snitch.

Grassing someone for a minor crime just to be nasty is pretty low fair enough but I'm sticking to my point that if you don't support the filth then you shouldn't expect them to be able to much of a job on your behalf.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by cavalier
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Oh and btw, i know you are of a 'Historical bent', pardon the pun, i picked up a couple of stonking books on the Ancient Greek/Roman empire last week, fantastic stuff. Bit earlier period than i'm used to, medieval like yersel, but its braw stuff. Does your knowledge spread this far??

what are they?

ancient greece other than philip/alexander, thermopalaye and the basics of hoplite tactics i'm a bit of an idiot but wouldn't mind learning more.

i'm a bit more up on Roman military but not much, though i'm always on look out for new stuff to learn as i think if i read another book on the british wars of succession i'll crack up, what's your particular fave?

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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This is where we disagree mate - if no one reports anything to the Garda then they'll always be glorified security guards, then again I don't have much contact with them.

Likewise I try to stay out of the way of the PSNI (or the Continuity RUC depending on your point of view
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). Not sure if they have organisations they don't touch but any time a loyalist or a republican is caught with their hand in the till they cry victimisation. This happens quite a lot so the PSNI must have their moments.




Grassing someone for a minor crime just to be nasty is pretty low fair enough but I'm sticking to my point that if you don't support the filth then you shouldn't expect them to be able to much of a job on your behalf.

As far as 'the gards' go I grudgingly understand why no one will speak to them and a lot of the times the gards themselves are subject to threats or are moved if they 'make too much noise' about a certain case. they sadly aren't like our police here.

I'll cop out and say (truthfully) that for the most part people who harp on about grasses are usually doing something wrong or rather something people think is wrong, but grassing someone for earning a wee bit on the side or singing a distasteful song at a football match when lots of folk are drunk is at best, petty minded and at worst, pretty sinister.

[KABULHIBBY]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby
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Likewise I try to stay out of the way of the PSNI (or the Continuity RUC depending on your point of view
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).

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Personally I would tout ma arrse off if I knew that neighbours etc were breaking the law be it benefit fraud, stealing my hard earned tax money, assault, burglary and would go out of my way to assist the local constabulary.

To me it's a bit like a non voter complaining about the Governments policies, if you do nothing about it you don't deserve the right to complain about it

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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what are they?

ancient greece other than philip/alexander, thermopalaye and the basics of hoplite tactics i'm a bit of an idiot but wouldn't mind learning more.

i'm a bit more up on Roman military but not much, though i'm always on look out for new stuff to learn as i think if i read another book on the british wars of succession i'll crack up, what's your particular fave?

I'm a huge Montrose fan.

Although i've had this book a while some may not have read it. 'Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield, novel about Thermopylae. Fantastic.

Proper books...

1.The classical world, an epic history of Greece and Rome by Robin Lane Fox.
2. In the name of Rome by Adrian Goldsworthy
3. Rubicon by Tim Holland.

Only recently bought numbers 1+3 and number 1 is shaping up nicely. Number two was pretty good and enlightening from a relatively ingorant starting point.


Highjack alert, sorry Connor!!
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[Forzahibs]

My old man went to the boxing club last night as he usually does on a Monday night he generally walks (its about 3/4 of a mile) At 2 this morning he heard a noise outside , looked out and saw his car was gone . He was just about to phone the police when he remembered he'd driven to the boxing club , and walked back
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He's going to Murrayfield with Hartley tomorrow , is he going aff his heid do you reckon ?

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by KABULHIBBY
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Personally I would tout ma arrse off if I knew that neighbours etc were breaking the law be it benefit fraud, stealing my hard earned tax money, assault, burglary and would go out of my way to assist the local constabulary.

To me it's a bit like a non voter complaining about the Governments policies, if you do nothing about it you don't deserve the right to complain about it

I couldn't be a hypocrite and do that , i'm sure we all get up to something a bit iffy in our lifetime
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[HailHail]

Originally Posted by cavalier
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I'm a huge Montrose fan.

Although i've had this book a while some may not have read it. 'Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield, novel about Thermopylae. Fantastic.

Proper books...

1.The classical world, an epic history of Greece and Rome by Robin Lane Fox.
2. In the name of Rome by Adrian Goldsworthy
3. Rubicon by Tim Holland.

Only recently bought numbers 1+3 and number 1 is shaping up nicely. Number two was pretty good and enlightening from a relatively ingorant starting point.


Highjack alert, sorry Connor!!
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I've heard of goldsworthy think i'll give that one a bash next
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Montrose is/was quite a man, though of course the unsung heroes are the Irish officers who helped him. the later Jacobite risings were crying out for such a charismatic leader, only viscount dundee in scotland and patrick sarsfield in Ireland come close.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by HailHail
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As far as 'the gards' go I grudgingly understand why no one will speak to them and a lot of the times the gards themselves are subject to threats or are moved if they 'make too much noise' about a certain case. they sadly aren't like our police here.

I'll cop out and say (truthfully) that for the most part people who harp on about grasses are usually doing something wrong or rather something people think is wrong, but grassing someone for earning a wee bit on the side or singing a distasteful song at a football match when lots of folk are drunk is at best, petty minded and at worst, pretty sinister.

Fair enough HH mate
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Like I say I was interested in views on this as it's such a huge issue in NI.

[Burbank Lilywhite]

I wonder if some of the stigma and problems back home regarding cooperation with law enforcement stems from how the law enforcement agencies themselves interacted and "forced" cooperation from the citizens they were suppose to be protecting. Certainly in the case of the PSNI, they are bearing the sins of the RUC when it comes to cooperation from the citizens.

At the end of the day if someone is commiting a crime, regardless of how you feel about the validity of the actual crime itself as a law abiding citizen on a level you are duty bound to report the criminal activity. Now if you feel that particular activity isn't criminal in nature then you should get involved in the political process and effect change to make the activity legal within the limits of the law.

One of the biggest misconceptions regarding crime, is the thought "its a victimless crime", or nobody is really getting hurt by this behaviour. Somebody, somewhere always pays for criminal activity.

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

I wonder if some of the stigma and problems back home regarding cooperation with law enforcement stems from how the law enforcement agencies themselves interacted and "forced" cooperation from the citizens they were suppose to be protecting. Certainly in the case of the PSNI, they are bearing the sins of the RUC when it comes to cooperation from the citizens.

How do you mean 'forced': are you talking about turning people as informers or assaults during interrogations.

Personally, if I had a chance I'd love to have taken a truncheon to one of the NI bombers if I thought I'd get away with it.

Also, do you reckon the sins of the RUC - while they obviously did take place - have been magnified for a number of political reasons (one being to give the good old boys a free criminal rein with less chance of their neighbours touting on them: what's a bit of bank robbery between friends??!!)