Would Scotland see a dramatic increase in racist hate crime...

[The__Proclaimer]

...if all Polish people had black skin?

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer

...if all Polish people had black skin?

Yip. TBH I cannae believe the hostility I hear about Poles from people who have never shown any indications of being racist.

[Forzahibs]

The women tend to be very tidy for some reason .
Thers a bloke in my work called Malkowsky

[Hibees-Mad]

Originally Posted by jimmyhibs

ok, on a serious note. i've never ever ever had the opinion that i was a racist. but lately, i have become 'less tolerant' of 'other races'.
i have become frustrated that as a scot i feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own country. if someone decides to come to scotland and integrate themselves and their family, i'm all for it. but i can't understand why we should have to cancel christmas nativity plays at school because it's not politically correct. (me an aetheist as well) as the country stands today, we are a christian country. so why are we having to bow to 'political correctness' when it should be those who come to this country should be trying to 'blend in'? i feel that as a scot, my very own identity is in doubt.
if this is seen as a racist post, then it's not intended to be. just an opinion.

I wouldn't call thayt racist, I'd call it frustrated at political correctness gone mad. The Xmas school thing with my kids schools gets me, too.

EDIT: On a not so serious note, can I say that the only poles I ever hated were the ones that got wrapped round my napper on Pilton Park when I was at school!!!!

[Hibees-Mad]

Originally Posted by jimmyhibs

so would you say that political correctness could be a catalyst to racism?

No. Are you saying that you could become a racist because of what we mentioned earlier?

[Hibees-Mad]

Originally Posted by jimmyhibs

no. but i can see political correctness frustrating someone enough to be considered racist.

Definately. And no doubt there are people who would use it as an excuse for racism.

[Lix]

It's a good point....
and what you say Jimmy is summing it up ... generally in Scotland we've not had to integrate that much - well not in any large manner ... ie there are plenty immigrants, but they've largely come in small numbers and integrated well...

BUT I lived as a student in Leeds at one point and was a racial minority where I lived ... there were all sorts of problems there and often the white locals felt marginalised by their view that many of the asians and blacks failed to integrate and that's where a lot of the antipathy towards them came from ...

I remember leaflets from the council coming through the door and you had to search for the english bit ...

Now I'm in no way condoning the attitudes, but I guess I could see where they stemmed from.

The large influx of Polish people to Edinburgh could potentially lead to similar discontent if they were viewed to be not integrating into society and could breed resentment ...

All that said, no matter what colour of the skin being prejudiced against anyone for their nationality, creed, sex or religion is wrong.

I'm all for Edinburgh becoming more cosmopolitan.

[Burbank Lilywhite]

Originally Posted by jimmyhibs

ok, on a serious note. i've never ever ever had the opinion that i was a racist. but lately, i have become 'less tolerant' of 'other races'.
i have become frustrated that as a scot i feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own country. if someone decides to come to scotland and integrate themselves and their family, i'm all for it. but i can't understand why we should have to cancel christmas nativity plays at school because it's not politically correct. (me an aetheist as well) as the country stands today, we are a christian country. so why are we having to bow to 'political correctness' when it should be those who come to this country should be trying to 'blend in'? i feel that as a scot, my very own identity is in doubt.
if this is seen as a racist post, then it's not intended to be. just an opinion.

I wonder if you remove "Scot" and replace it with "American" what would the response be to someone making this statement?

One of the problems seen here in the states particulary in the school systems (my wife works in the local school system) is that return to the "hyphenated American", such as Mexican-American, Irish-American rather than American of Mexican ancestry/birth, or American of Irish ancenstry/birth. As a result the kids don't want to integrate into society at large but feel society should integrate into their culture. This is backed up by segments of society insisting upon the notion of it (society) must bend over backwards to accomdate their cultural norms.

A prime example is the debate that rages between law enforcement and the Latino community each New Years eve over the cultural practice of firing a weapon into the air at midnight. Local law enforcement states this act is crime, you are to be arrested and punished, local community leaders counter with "You don't understand the culture". And each year some poor soul is struck with a bullet fired by someone doing this.

Then there is the backlash against integrating into the larger society which I feel may be triggered by the sense that society at large feels under threat by the lack of integration by new-comers and the natural resentment that comes from this feeling.

I don't view this sentiment as racist in the the context you describe, but I do feel it can lead to racism when both sides of the equation don't sit down and talk and come to the middle ground where the new comers realise that in order to achieve the fullness of being a "Scot", "Irishman", "American", whatever they must integrate into the larger established society. And that the larger established society must realise while there is this integration there are important parts of the new comers ethnic identity which must and should be preserved to enrich everyone. It's finding that middle ground that is the hard part.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by jimmyhibs

ok, on a serious note. i've never ever ever had the opinion that i was a racist. but lately, i have become 'less tolerant' of 'other races'.
i have become frustrated that as a scot i feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own country. if someone decides to come to scotland and integrate themselves and their family, i'm all for it. but i can't understand why we should have to cancel christmas nativity plays at school because it's not politically correct. (me an aetheist as well) as the country stands today, we are a christian country. so why are we having to bow to 'political correctness' when it should be those who come to this country should be trying to 'blend in'? i feel that as a scot, my very own identity is in doubt.
if this is seen as a racist post, then it's not intended to be. just an opinion.

I believe Poland has a far larger proportion of it's population who are practising christians than Scotland. So presumably Polish immigration is actually re-inforcing what you want. I'm an atheist so I say send them all back...

[Smurf]

A fascinating thread. My answer is absolutely yes. It's disgusting and it's wrong but IMO it's human nature as all over the world we see a similar pattern.

The challenge is IMO to educate and intergrate.

This edinburgher loves his cosmopolitan city.
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[Burbank Lilywhite]

Originally Posted by Smurf

A fascinating thread. My answer is absolutely yes. It's disgusting and it's wrong but IMO it's human nature as all over the world we see a similar pattern.

One that I think we will continue to see on the rise in Europe as it goes through the same growing pains American has and continues to go through.

Originally Posted by Smurf

The challenge is IMO to educate and intergrate.

Which can only occur when both sides feel that neither is under attack and realise the value to their mutal integration.

[arthurduncan]

Absolutely yes to the original question.

This isn't aimed at anyone on here and I can see no whiff of racism in anything said so far but I am genuinely suspicious of the "not blending in" argument. Moving to another country with another language must be a nightmare - I'm not that good at meeting new people even here so I can only imagine trying to do it 1000 miles away when you don't understand fcuk all. My starting point is simple: when you invite someone into your house for a party or dinner the tradition is that it is your duty to go out of your way to make them feel welcome and ensure they are at ease - that's a good tradition which generalises to the community. If you are frustrated by a lack of integration in your community then invite one of your polish neighbours over for dinner and at least find out what his name is or even better invite him to a Hibs game. After an awkward start I made some effort with my polish neighbours and now they seem perfectly happy to chat as best they can (their english is a lot better than my polish) and we had a great time during the World Cup talking about football. They had a lot to say about abuse, vandalism they had suffered and were perplexed by it. What more is it they are supposed to do to "blend in" especially when they are not made particularly welcome? It's early days for polish migration - as it happens I have a lot more difficulty communicating with some of the local asian community some of whom have been here for years - which shows there can be some issues with integration.

ps I know this is overly optimistic but I am just back off holiday and feeling full of the joys of life etc!

[Looby-Lou]

In no way am I saying that all the Polish folk are bad but I had a very bad experience with a Polish guy on Friday in the Vodka Bar!!

He came right up to me and slapped my a*se. I told him to back off and he came up and apologised - then stuck his hand down my top!!?!?

The bouncer, was also Polish, and chucked him out - there is good and bad.

Sorry probably not relevent - just thought I'd share!!

x

[beefy]

Originally Posted by babydollxxx

In no way am I saying that all the Polish folk are bad but I had a very bad experience with a Polish guy on Friday in the Vodka Bar!!

He came right up to me and slapped my a*se. I told him to back off and he came up and apologised - then stuck his hand down my top!!?!?

The bouncer, was also Polish, and chucked him out - there is good and bad.

Sorry probably not relevent - just thought I'd share!!

x

Sounds like this Polish guy rubbed ye up the wrong way .Should have spit on him and then he wouldnt have taken a shine to you.
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[Colr]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Yip. TBH I cannae believe the hostility I hear about Poles from people who have never shown any indications of being racist.

What's the problem with the Poles - they seem to be getting on fine with everyone here.

[No.7 Morri]

Originally Posted by Colr

What's the problem with the Poles - they seem to be getting on fine with everyone here.

exactly at least there coming across here and getting jobs and actualy working and therefore paying taxes and giving back to the nation

they seem to take any jobs that are going such as egg packing and get on with them which is more that can be said for our native yobs and lay abouts who decide that they are above those kind of jobs and think its better just to live off the dole

some of the women are pretty damn fit as well

[Colr]

Originally Posted by jimmyhibs

ok, on a serious note. i've never ever ever had the opinion that i was a racist. but lately, i have become 'less tolerant' of 'other races'.
i have become frustrated that as a scot i feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own country. if someone decides to come to scotland and integrate themselves and their family, i'm all for it. but i can't understand why we should have to cancel christmas nativity plays at school because it's not politically correct. (me an aetheist as well) as the country stands today, we are a christian country. so why are we having to bow to 'political correctness' when it should be those who come to this country should be trying to 'blend in'? i feel that as a scot, my very own identity is in doubt.
if this is seen as a racist post, then it's not intended to be. just an opinion.

Is that as common as the Dailly mail would like us to believe or are people just stirring the shite between different groups - as has been evidenced between the scots and engish of late.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Burbank Lilywhite

I wonder if you remove "Scot" and replace it with "American" what would the response be to someone making this statement?

One of the problems seen here in the states particulary in the school systems (my wife works in the local school system) is that return to the "hyphenated American", such as Mexican-American, Irish-American rather than American of Mexican ancestry/birth, or American of Irish ancenstry/birth. As a result the kids don't want to integrate into society at large but feel society should integrate into their culture. This is backed up by segments of society insisting upon the notion of it (society) must bend over backwards to accomdate their cultural norms.

A prime example is the debate that rages between law enforcement and the Latino community each New Years eve over the cultural practice of firing a weapon into the air at midnight. Local law enforcement states this act is crime, you are to be arrested and punished, local community leaders counter with "You don't understand the culture". And each year some poor soul is struck with a bullet fired by someone doing this.

Then there is the backlash against integrating into the larger society which I feel may be triggered by the sense that society at large feels under threat by the lack of integration by new-comers and the natural resentment that comes from this feeling.

I don't view this sentiment as racist in the the context you describe, but I do feel it can lead to racism when both sides of the equation don't sit down and talk and come to the middle ground where the new comers realise that in order to achieve the fullness of being a "Scot", "Irishman", "American", whatever they must integrate into the larger established society. And that the larger established society must realise while there is this integration there are important parts of the new comers ethnic identity which must and should be preserved to enrich everyone. It's finding that middle ground that is the hard part.

Interesting points - especially as the majority of Scots on the board have a problem integrating into Britain!!! I'm making a serious point here about integration drawn from the reluctance of many to consider themslves an integral part of the UK from earlier discussions.

[beefy]

There is lot of guys in the building trade iknow that arent too happy with the influx of Poles in that game.

[hibadelic]

AFAIK no immigrant has ever said they are offended by nativity plays etc. I don't see what it has to do with Poles or any other immigrants. I would imagine the people banning these sorts of things are mostly Scottish.

Personally I'm more likely to become racist against the Scots than any other group, we can be a shower of whinging idiots at times.
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