mandy dingle on top form, over at ff towers

[egb_hibs]

What sort of culture do you want Rangers to have? - UEFA charges and the aftermath

Story by Grandmaster Suck
12 April 2006

The recent UEFA charges have thrown open the debate about what sort of club we are, have been and should be. We’ve never had a proper debate before.

Some want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and strip every vestage of Scottish Protestantism from the club’s identity. The handwringers and those afraid of being labelled as bigots find common ground with those who simply don’t care. Sadly, they find willing allies in the ranks of the FTP Brigade who would reduce the heritage of the Reformation, Glorious Revolution and the Enlightenment to a handful of vulgar chants and a verse of two of bastardised versions of songs. In doing so they provide the ammunition for the Rangers-haters.

The FF fanzine has been at the forefront of the sensible discussion about all aspects of the club since our first issue. Indeed, as in so many things, fans who may be regarded as “The Old Guard” are in fact amongst the most progressive in many aspects. In fact it was The Gub who coined the phrase “FTP Brigade” subsequently taken up by Mr Murray and popularised in the press.


There's a point a lot of people are missing in this affair.

The term "FTP Brigade" was first used in FF fanzine by a number of writers who were unionist activists during the Troubles. It was used to brand those halfwits who despite bastardising every loyalist song they could get their hands on contributed nothing to the struggle against terrorism in Ulster.

Those of us who have actually bothered to give practical aid to Ulster - lecturing in halls, getting involved in election campaigns, writing to MPs, campaigning for extradition from the Republic, organising parades, campaigning for extended police powers, etc, etc, have nothing but contempt for these loudmouthed armchair loyalists as their behaviour damages the cause.

FF represents a reasonable number of decent Rangers fans who have a wonderful array of talents and knowledge. There simply isn’t that same pool of talent and historical memory within the walls of Ibrox.
This is where I genuinely think FF is different from other fans projects around the country - we have a laugh and a joke and enjoy the game but we are also deadly serious about making changes. Some people are content to be fans - to be passive recipients of whatever the Board says and does - they don’t want to publicly ‘cause trouble.’
Fine, that doesn’t mean they aren’t good Bluenoses. What I’m saying is this (and I have to admit it took me years to realise what I wanted!) I want RFC to begin again to represent what the fans want and the magic of the story of the Rangers, of a club founded by a handful of Presbyterian kids for the joy of the sport.



BEING A PROTESTANT CLUB IN A SECULAR AGE
One of the problems we face is exactly what do we want our culture to be when the nominally Protestant population of Scotland has undergone a dramatic secularisation since World War II.

With 23.76% of Scottish households containing people not of the same religious persuasion I think it's obvious hundreds of thousands of Rangers fans are in mixed families, married to non-Prods, live with, live next door to, work with, socialise with, etc, those not of a Presbyterian bent without Scotland being the sectarian battlefield Nil By Mouth would like it to be.

Those facts may not suit those anti-Protestant bigots and self-loathers but facts they are and facts they will remain.

Some interesting details from the Census can be obtained on this website. - [Only Registered Users Can See Links. Click Here To Register]

“The problem” the club has it that it has never tried to harness this latent affinity for our Protestant heritage in a positive way - in the past it was taken for granted and nowadays the directors are simply too terrified to look at a long-term and healthy accomodation.

To claim that Rangers are not a club with a Protestant heritage and ethos is simply laughable. It simply isn’t intellectually sustainable to claim otherwise. What form that ethos takes is now up for debate.



MORE THAN A CLUB - OKAY FOR BARCELONA BUT NOT FOR US?
Barcelona’s motto proclaims that they consider themselves to be a cultural and political icon for the Catalans. So to do Athletic Bilbao and Real Sociedad for the Basques. You never hear the press criticise the extreme-left politics of Germanys St Pauli. Instead all these clubs are lauded for their political and cultural aspects. Lord, you even find praise for Celtic’s Catholic origins from Graham Spiers. But Spiers recently mocked Rangers Protestant identity on Radio Scotland when asked - what “sort of theolgian was Bill Struth?” (Presumably Billy McNeill and Willie Maley could explain the mysteries of transubstaniation and papal infalibility to Graham’s satisfaction)


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[Northern Ireland Hibby]

BEING A PROTESTANT CLUB IN A SECULAR AGE

A Protestant club, eh?

I assume the churches in Govan are packed to the rafters, then?

[KerPlunk]

Sorry, egb, but why are you posting that shite on a Hibs board ?
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[egb_hibs]

sorry meant to put it on the cowshed. thought flok might get laugh out of it.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

sorry meant to put it on the cowshed. thought flok might get laugh out of it.

I've glanced at it. I don't really want to read their shite. They are disgusting. Sad state of affairs. Bigots. Scum.

[Archie]

Actually EGB, I'm glad you posted this. I don't normally read Follow Follow, but I think it is an interesting debate that needs more than some high minded tut tuts. What exactly is different about Rangers defining their 'heritage' in the same way that Celtic or Hibs do? I'm not an expert on NI politics, but is there not a perspective that needs to be heard, particularly one that is about defining themselves in terms of their Scottishness?

I think one of the most startling things is that words are being used (reference to Ulster struggle or Protestant background) that would be unremarkable in the context of a Celtic site or indeed some posters here.

I'd really like to hear the views of Bouncers beyond stock bigot quotes etc. What is it about this that gets under your skins - is there a legitimate identity for Rangers fans - if so, what is it?

I had similar feelings after the post of the Geoffrey Wheatcroft article. Again, I'm not an expert, but what I've read about 1916 at least chimed in with some of what he was saying. So why the curt dismissal of it as disgusting filth etc?

Come on Bouncers - you're better than this. Inform the uninformed!

[madkink]

Originally Posted by Archie

Actually EGB, I'm glad you posted this. I don't normally read Follow Follow, but I think it is an interesting debate that needs more than some high minded tut tuts. What exactly is different about Rangers defining their 'heritage' in the same way that Celtic or Hibs do? I'm not an expert on NI politics, but is there not a perspective that needs to be heard, particularly one that is about defining themselves in terms of their Scottishness?

I think one of the most startling things is that words are being used (reference to Ulster struggle or Protestant background) that would be unremarkable in the context of a Celtic site or indeed some posters here.

I'd really like to hear the views of Bouncers beyond stock bigot quotes etc. What is it about this that gets under your skins - is there a legitimate identity for Rangers fans - if so, what is it?

I had similar feelings after the post of the Geoffrey Wheatcroft article. Again, I'm not an expert, but what I've read about 1916 at least chimed in with some of what he was saying. So why the curt dismissal of it as disgusting filth etc?

Come on Bouncers - you're better than this. Inform the uninformed!

i have a queation or 2 and it is something that bugs me big style, i understand the heritage of the irish teams (hibs/celtic/dundee hibernia) being formed because the workers were not allowed to play in scottish prodistent(sp?) teams, but as far as being involved in NI/EIRE politics, WHAT THE FECK IS THE POINT ? mayby someone can answer me that?

the only politics we should be concerned about when it come to hibs and other teams, are politics of football, not country conflict

that is what the major problem is in glasgow (in perticuler) is it is not just about football, it's about what religion you are, and i ask again why, i mean if that was the case the cathlic guy from dublin i know (used to work with) that has been a rangers fan all his life , shouldn't be

there is NO religion in football apart from the faiths that the individuals follow,

there has been countries distroyed by the exact same views and i would hate to think that the good game of football has been distroyed due to some mindless idiots,

what we should be more concerned about is who scored the goal not what church he goes to, we should hate the opposing fans cos they support that team, not for the fact the are prody or cathlic, we should chant your team is pish, not your god is gay, you get the picture now don't you

KEEP RELIGION AND COUNTRY POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL there is no time nor place for secterianism (sp?)

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Archie

Actually EGB, I'm glad you posted this. I don't normally read Follow Follow, but I think it is an interesting debate that needs more than some high minded tut tuts. What exactly is different about Rangers defining their 'heritage' in the same way that Celtic or Hibs do? I'm not an expert on NI politics, but is there not a perspective that needs to be heard, particularly one that is about defining themselves in terms of their Scottishness?

I think one of the most startling things is that words are being used (reference to Ulster struggle or Protestant background) that would be unremarkable in the context of a Celtic site or indeed some posters here.

I'd really like to hear the views of Bouncers beyond stock bigot quotes etc. What is it about this that gets under your skins - is there a legitimate identity for Rangers fans - if so, what is it?

I had similar feelings after the post of the Geoffrey Wheatcroft article. Again, I'm not an expert, but what I've read about 1916 at least chimed in with some of what he was saying. So why the curt dismissal of it as disgusting filth etc?

Come on Bouncers - you're better than this. Inform the uninformed!

Rangers aren't a "protestant" club. They became a big football club because they tapped into an anti-catholic sentiment. Before Celtic were formed they were a similar size to the likes of Third Renton, or Dumbarton. I'd be quite happy to see them ceasing their sectarian shite because we'd be a bigger club than them within about 5 years. Their continuing defence of not signing catholics for 100 years has to be seen to believed btw. It consists of saying "it wasn't a case of not signing catholics, there was merely never one good enough to play for us".

BTW if Grandmaster Suck is Mark Dingwall he's a fecking fanny. The boy got skelped in Glasgow city centre whilst distributing leaflets calling for ethnic cleansing of catholics living in the city. I can't mind if his nom de plum is The Gub, or Grandmaster Suck but whichever it is he writes extensively for Follow Follow in both fanzine and internet form, and is either being lauded in this article for combatting sectarianism, or wrote it. So I'll take this with not so much a pinch of salt, as the combined total amount of sodium chloride that the Red Sea contains...

So in answer to your question the reason that I despise them, and don't accept the self-justification they use to excuse their bigotry, is because they were formed as a rowing club not as a sign of national identity. Their "identity" is about as pleasant and progressive as the Ku Klux Klans.

[wee 162]

BTW this is the first time I've looked at this thread cause I thought it was about Emmerdale
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[Northern Ireland Hibby]

Originally Posted by wee 162

BTW this is the first time I've looked at this thread cause I thought it was about Emmerdale
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I'll always hold EGB responsible for the fact that the phrase 'Mandy Dingle on top' is now burned into my brain.
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I think I'm going to need conselling!!!

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Archie

Actually EGB, I'm glad you posted this. I don't normally read Follow Follow, but I think it is an interesting debate that needs more than some high minded tut tuts. What exactly is different about Rangers defining their 'heritage' in the same way that Celtic or Hibs do? I'm not an expert on NI politics, but is there not a perspective that needs to be heard, particularly one that is about defining themselves in terms of their Scottishness?

I think one of the most startling things is that words are being used (reference to Ulster struggle or Protestant background) that would be unremarkable in the context of a Celtic site or indeed some posters here.

I'd really like to hear the views of Bouncers beyond stock bigot quotes etc. What is it about this that gets under your skins - is there a legitimate identity for Rangers fans - if so, what is it?

I had similar feelings after the post of the Geoffrey Wheatcroft article. Again, I'm not an expert, but what I've read about 1916 at least chimed in with some of what he was saying. So why the curt dismissal of it as disgusting filth etc?

Come on Bouncers - you're better than this. Inform the uninformed!

Archie - if you stick something on the easter rising thread, expanding on your point here, and I'll reply...