Fascism - Communisim and football

[Sunshine on Leith]

Did anyone watch the two documentries that followed each other on BBC4 lastnight? the first one being fascism then followed by communism.

It was really interesting how the leaders of both parties exploited football for their political gain.

It was also funny seeing the England national team doing the fascist salute before a friendly in Munich in 1938.

[500miles]

Originally Posted by Sunshine on Leith

Did anyone watch the two documentries that followed each other on BBC4 lastnight? the first one being fascism then followed by communism.

It was really interesting how the leaders of both parties exploited football for their political gain.

It was also funny seeing the England national team doing the fascist salute before a friendly in Munich in 1938.

I caught the last 30- 45 minutes of it when they were talking about the brothers that were imprisioned. Interesting stuff
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[Bartok]

POSTED ON BEHALF OF PQ123

Missed it, but given your immenent trip to the (Non-Leith) San Siro it might be worth reading up on Italian football cultures. If you don't have the time; AC Milan are the traditional working class side, Inter being middle class. Ultra roots began there but have moved a fair bit. the first Ultra squad was La Fossa dei Leoni (The Lions Den) at AC Milan.
However, like Scotland, fitba rowdies have blurred the lines and quoting Lenin or Marx is mair likely to get a blank stare, or a smack in the coupon, than a comradely hug fae AC milan supporters.

PQ123

[tricky]

I saw a chunk of the Communism and Football programme, it was very interesting especially the stuff about the Hungarian national team and also the stuff about Steltskov? being imprisoned by the KGB in Moscow, will try and find out if they're gonna be repeated.

[Sunshine on Leith]

Originally Posted by tricky

I saw a chunk of the Communism and Football programme, it was very interesting especially the stuff about the Hungarian national team and also the stuff about Steltskov? being imprisoned by the KGB in Moscow, will try and find out if they're gonna be repeated.

Steltskov was supposed to have been better than Pele leading up to the 58' WC. He was set up by the KGB for a rape he didn't commit,and was sent to the Gulag. He was 26 when he was released and played again but could never capture the brilliance that he once had.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by Sunshine on Leith

Steltskov was supposed to have been better than Pele leading up to the 58' WC. He was set up by the KGB for a rape he didn't commit,and was sent to the Gulag. He was 26 when he was released and played again but could never capture the brilliance that he once had.

aye seven years in a Siberian labour camp effectively for refusing to join the KGB team Dinamo Moscow or Red Army run CSKA, possibly not the smartest decision..

have just been reading about the 1958 World Cup in Sweden where Brazil faced the USSR in Garrinchas biography which is an absolutely top class read, highly recommended.

[superbam]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

POSTED ON BEHALF OF PQ123

Missed it, but given your immenent trip to the (Non-Leith) San Siro it might be worth reading up on Italian football cultures. If you don't have the time; AC Milan are the traditional working class side, Inter being middle class. Ultra roots began there but have moved a fair bit. the first Ultra squad was La Fossa dei Leoni (The Lions Den) at AC Milan.
However, like Scotland, fitba rowdies have blurred the lines and quoting Lenin or Marx is mair likely to get a blank stare, or a smack in the coupon, than a comradely hug fae AC milan supporters.

PQ123

I always thought it was the other way round, although i realise these things arent as clear cut as they used to be. Im pretty sure many Inter Milan clubs across Itraly and not just in Milan are linked to the far left, and actually managed to get Javier Zanetti to visit the Zapatistas in Mexico last year.

[LutherBlisset]

Originally Posted by superbam

I always thought it was the other way round, although i realise these things arent as clear cut as they used to be. Im pretty sure many Inter Milan clubs across Itraly and not just in Milan are linked to the far left, and actually managed to get Javier Zanetti to visit the Zapatistas in Mexico last year.

Inter are definately traditonally the right club with well to do supporters, Milan were the working class team.

Political groups have always used sport though to drum up support, win recruits etc.

Still goes on in this country.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by LutherBlisset

Inter are definately traditonally the right club with well to do supporters, Milan were the working class team.

Political groups have always used sport though to drum up support, win recruits etc.

Still goes on in this country.

has this traditional divide been in any way affected by berloscuni owning milan ?

[DarrenSQH]

I watched a programme about facism and football. It started on how Mussolini may have tried to cheat by fixing matches using the referees to let Italy win the tournament. Result was in 1934 Italy 2-1 Czechoslovakia.
Then it went on to show Franco and real madrid.

[superbam]

Originally Posted by superbam

I always thought it was the other way round, although i realise these things arent as clear cut as they used to be. Im pretty sure many Inter Milan clubs across Itraly and not just in Milan are linked to the far left, and actually managed to get Javier Zanetti to visit the Zapatistas in Mexico last year.

SORRY i got that wrong it had nothing to do with the fans, it was the actual club that was funding social projects in chiapas and the zapatistas invited Inter to take them on in a fundraiser, which involved Javier Zanetti getting his picture taken with Subcommandante Marcos of the EZLN. The Inter ultras, if they are into all that fascist caper, must have been raging.

[LutherBlisset]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

has this traditional divide been in any way affected by berloscuni owning milan ?

Did you know that Berlusconi is an Inter fan?

It has murkied the waters a bit. Some of the traditional 'left' teams in Italy such as Roma now have large numbers of fascists in their support. It is not as clear cut it as it used to be.