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Old 11-01-08, 15:27   #7
HenryLB
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Re: bush on palestine

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You missed a couple of bits;



So no right of return for people expelled from their homes,

The problem with this - and I speak as someone who generally speaking supports the right of return - is that many Palestinians left of their own accord, mainly because they were advised to by the invading arab governments. This was done essentially so that their armies would be able to slaughter everybody in their path in what they assumed would be such an easy victory it would amount to a massacre.

In a more general sense the neighbouring countries to Israel are roughly 650 times its size, and many are extremely wealthy. I'm cynical of the intentions of the rulers of those countries as I think they have as much to gain by maintaining the "refugee" situation as Israel does. Probably more.

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and "some" land taken off Israel which they have been illegally occupying.
I agree that the occupation now looks illegal. But in that sense one could argue that parts of Poland should be returned to Germany. And would Jordan have first claim on the West Bank? I'm not suggesting it would be taken up, but legally speaking wouldn't that be the case?


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Ending "expansion" (note the use of the word expansion rather than the actual correct term of "occupation") rather than suggesting rollback suggests that what is there will stay. In conjunction with the term "reflect current realities" above what it is suggesting is that the entire boundary between Palestine & Israel will be re-drawn, and I would have more than a guess that it will follow pretty closely the wall the Israelis have built.

And who will decide on whether what the Palestinians have satisfactorily confronted "terrorists" and dismantled "terrorist infrastructure"? The UN? A new international monitoring body? Or Israel. I'd have a wild guess it would be Israel, or at a push, Israels benefactor the US. And since the US & Israel considers Hamas to be a terrorist group, presumably that would mean an end to any democracy in Palestine which could possibly elect them.
Largely agree. Although I think that Hamas will gradually screw up the situation in the occupied territories quite happily by themselves. They're already half way there, and personally I'd prefer it if Israel let them get on with it so they fail democratically. Mind you I don't have to live next door to people who want me dead and consider me genetically evil.

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Complete spin, and if anyone thinks the Palestinians will go for this they're off their heads. Yasser Arafat was getting offered slightly more than this and the breakdown in negotiation led to the current Intafada ffs!
I think that had rather a lot to do with Arafat. That was the single big opportunity and he blew it because he understood that politically he couldn't lose by carrying on the violence.

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Israel I could see going for it. After all, they get to keep the land they have been occupying for 40 years, they get to re-draw the boundaries to get the most precious resource in the area which is water, and they have to get assurances from everyone that there will never be any "terrorism" directed against it. Can the Palestinians get a similar assurance that Israel will not use their terrorist infrastructure of US built and sunsidised F-15s used against their population and political leaders that Israel doesn't like? Can the Palestinians get assurances that Israel will stop rolling their tanks into Palestinian territory at the drop of a hat?
I hope that would be part of any agreement but I share your pessimism.
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