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Old 02-11-06, 00:29   #20
Bartok
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Re: On what basis is britain a nation?

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isn't the nation state also a response to the requirement to create a social model not based on the authority of church or crown? ie, from what other source of moral authority do laws and so on proceed? answer, the embodiment of the people as nation. i thought the french revolution was the biggest trigger for nationalism, rather than industrialisation. the french, even the left, are still fiercely nationalist today, or so it appears to me.
But the French revolution wasn't a nationalist revolution; France was already a nation-state. It was a political revolution, replacing the crown as the source of moral authority as you put it with the national assembly. The biggest trigger for nationalism is, rather, the lack of a nation-state with a common language. Germany and Italy in the 19th century epitomise this, Poland, Hungary etc in the 20th. It is also the reason why multi-lingual states are so difficult to keep stable, eg Yugoslavia.
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but that embodiment of the people as nation, draws upon prior tribal partisanship, shared history and institutions. you name a few above - but when our famed education system has been trashed, our legal system is subordinate to brussel, or national church is an irrelevance, and our fitbaw team are shite then what weight do they continue to carry? as least as an inconsequential nation, we scots are still allowed to celebrate our history. if we were english, this too would be oot the windae. multi-culturalism also seems to me to be oxymoronic in this model of nation.
Yes, if language and distinct institutions are no longer cultural 'cement' then history remains... and yet there is something more at work with Scottish nationalism IMO. It is vague and tricky to define, but I reckon many Scots identify a cultural outlook which is quite markedly different from that of England.

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as for why scottish nationalism has such a long history? simple - the clearest way to establish national identity; and one constantly employed by architects of political nationalism, is to defined yourself by what you are not and what you are opposed to. hence the scottish, and indeed the irish, so long dominated by the english, and - with no migration path being island peoples, are ideal petri dishes for the emergence of tribal nationalism.

ps tribal nationalism is a world wide phenomena, but AFAIK, only european culture produced the nation state or anything analagous to it.
I think it can be articulated much more positively, but the Catch 22 is that Scottish nationalists are often forced onto the back foot by the sort of question you are asking, ie what is so different about the Scots? This obliges a statement of distinction that sounds like a refutation of Englishness.
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